by wobble 76 Replies latest watchtower bible
"Is God LOVE ?
Well, sure He is. The Bible says so.
Is love not jealous?
Well, sure it is. The Bible says so.
Is God a jealous God?
Well, sure He is. The Bible says so."
Farkel wow. I had never thought of that. I guess it's another Bible inconsistency among many others.
You can only throw a stone just so far before it falls. That is the absolute range.
You can only feel just so much before the limit of feeling is reached. That is the absolute range.
The greatest possible being you can imagine that embodies the greatest good is: GOD.
The greatest possible imaginable evil being is: Satan.
The ABSOLUTE is the range limit. The "being" is your imagination fueled by your values and tastes.
Having said all that I now say this.
If YOUR God destroys people or plants them in Hell for everlasting torment or permits evil to exist it is YOUR limit as a human being at work.
It has nothing to do with any ACTUAL person, being, action or reality.
You BELIEVE in something which FITS your particular TASTES in fairness, justice, etc.
In much the same way that you buy in to all of this you can reach a point where you buy out as well.
Then, you are truly free to OWN your values and become responsible for them and your actions.
Religious people do "good" because God tells them it is good. They repent of "evil" because God tells them to.
When you buy out of BELIEF as an absolute limit of imagination you are FREE TO CHOOSE and OWN your "good" and your "bad" and claim
ownership honestly.
There is such a difference!
Remember, if a person commits atrocities and claims God or Satan told them to do it they are considered legally insane. Duh!
I don't know who this "god" guy is most of the scriptures talk about. Not really important to me.
But in my experience, "God" is literally "love" - a direct correspondence.
Greetings, all, and may you all have peace. I would like to comment futher, please. Thank you!
Is love not jealous? Well, sure it is. The Bible says so.
Actually, dear Daddy-O ( and the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!)... it doesn't say that. Yes, the NWT says that, but one must be careful to use most accurate translations when quoting scriptures and verses. Per the Greek word zeloo... love... is not zealously envious. Which is not the same a jealous. True, there is unjustified jealousy, but there is appropriate jealousy. However, there is never appropriate envy. The word denotes a zealous covetousness... the desiring of something that does not belong to one, is not one's right to have/possess. Exclusive devotion is a RIGHT of the Mose Holy One of Israel... from Israel... to who such words were spoken as a prelude to an exclusive covenant between God and that nation. The Most Holy One of Israel does not care, however, who the nations worshipped as their god(s). If, however, one comes into the NEW Covenant with Him, by means of Christ, one is AGREEING (which is what a Covenant is, a contract/agreement) to have only Him as their God. If one makes the CHOICE to enter into a Covenant with the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... as Israel and those with them at Sinai did... then one can't complain that that is one of the provisions of such Covenant. It wasn't in the fine print, dear one - it was stated upfront and outright.
If god is love, and we are made in his image, then why are we not love, at our core? If we are not love, in our essence, then god isn't, iether, unless, someone is lying.
This is a BIG mistake folks make, dear Satanus (peace to you!), particularly "christians." We are not made in God's image; we are made in Adham's image... after he sinned:
"And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth..." Genesis 5:3
The statement was not "Let us make manKIND in our image," but to make man, Adham, and man with a womb, Eve, in their image. And only Adham and Eve were, at that time. Now, some are being made OVER... into Christ's image... and thus, into God's. But none of us beyond Adham/Eve started out that way. Christ, however, is "reversing" the... well, evolution... of man.
There are only two emotions that enter human consciousness: Love and Fear. Every other emotion is a by-product of one of those.
I have to disagree with you, here, dear ProdSon (peace to you, too!). More than fear are the [essences] of hate... and anger. While fear doesn't always result in hate/anger... a lack of love always does. So, the opposite of love is not fear, but hate/anger. Fully cover your hate/anger... with love... which is most easily born out in forgiveness/mercy... and you won't have fear. One can conquer one's fear and still have hate/anger. Because hate/anger more often finds its roots in contempt... versus in fear. But perfect love... meaning, love for even one's enemies... conquers them all: fear, hate, and anger.
I think this in itself tells us exactly who "Jehovah" is: Satan. The TRUE God cannot be the producer of evil, because the evil came along after we became separated from the Most High.
Not quite, dear one. The Darkness existed even before the Light. He was there when Light came to be. He came into THIS world, yes, after such "separation"... through Adham, the one who separated earthling man from God. Satan is the Darkness, however... the "evil". He is simply the AGENT of that one.
Love is not a THING. Love is not an entity.
Only partially true, dear Terry (peace to you, as well!). While love is not a thing, true, He is an entity. In the same way that Christ is the Way, Truth, Life, the Light, Wisdom, etc. Just like these can be/are personified, love, too, is personified. In the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies.
Love is the strongest possible emotion which is a caused emotion.
I disagree and I offer parents as an example. While it is true that some parents, never love their children, and some love them once they come into the world and they begin caring for them... and some love them from knowledge of their conception... some love... even before such child becomes a reality (at any stage). And not necessarily because they love the other parent; there doesn't even need to be another parent for such love to exist. Meaning, some love... SO much... that they need to share it with another/others. Possibly a spouse, even a child. THAT is the love of God. It is the love that produced Christ, the Light (who is the "Son of His love)... and then, through that Son, physical universe. Love is not a caused emotion - love CAUSES. And it causes good.
Your strongest values produce your strongest emotions. When you encounter something which embodies your strongest values you FEEL Love.
Again, I disagree and forgive me for the differentiation I am about to make, but some will understand it... it might be because I am a woman. Yes, I understand that men love as much and as hard/deep as women. More so, IMHO. But... we often love differently. For a man, then, perhaps strong values cause you to feel love. For women, however, love... causes you to feel... virtually all that you feel. I understand that there are exceptions, of course. But our differences are what makes us so... wonderful. God, however, because He is male AND female... is the combination of both: love that causes... and causes of love.
The greatest possible being you can imagine that embodies the greatest good is: GOD.
With my Lord a VERY close second, yes.
The greatest possible imaginable evil being is: Satan.
NO. This is an ERROR... one perpetuated by those who purport to know "the Bible". Satan is NOT the greatest possible imaginable evil. He is the AGENT of that one. DEATH... is the greatest possible imaginable evil being. He, the LAST enemy... is the one from whom Adam and Eve "ate." By doing so they came to know good... (through eating from CHRIST, [the Tree of] Life)... AND bad (through eating from DEATH [the Tree of] the knowledge of good AND bad. Even while Satan is abyssed, Death still reigns. Even when Satan is hurled into the Lake of Fire, Death still exists. Death is our GREATEST enemy... not Satan. Satan is impotent; oppose him - he flees. He has NO power other than what we GIVE him, which many do through fear. Death, on the other hand, cannot be opposed. He can be stalled, yes, for a time. But he WILL prevail in the end, no matter WHAT we do.
The vocation chosen by Satan is to deliver us TO Death; the vocation chosen by Christ is to deliver us FROM Death... FROM "evil."
The ABSOLUTE is the range limit.
Yes, but who many believes represents these (well, one) is an error... and one of the reasons why there are so many divisions: people THINK they know, when truly they don't. Because JUST like they cannot "see" God as love... or Christ as truth, light, life, wisdom... personified... they cannot "see" Death. But he is an entity. A living breathing entity... that feeds. He is just not human, as none of them are. But because we ARE... and thus, limited in our knowledge and understanding... we can't perceive these truths. They are simply "beyond" us... because they are not of our world. Which, truthfully, is the danger - we can't SEE what's really going on. At least, not with our eyes [of flesh].
The "being" is your imagination fueled by your values and tastes.
Would that that were true, dear one. We would have SO much MORE control over what happens in our world. While we do have a LOT of control(but, unfortunately, don't know/use that)... we don't have exclusive control.
Having said all that I now say this. If YOUR God destroys people or plants them in Hell for everlasting torment or permits evil to exist it is YOUR limit as a human being at work.
I absolutely agree. Unfortunately, most think that such "god" is the Most Holy One of Israel... but it is not. "Jehovah", perhaps (and I don't say that to include only the WTBTS - this name isn't exclusive to their use; they're just the ones who've made it more prominent).
It has nothing to do with any ACTUAL person, being, action or reality.
Again, agreed.
You BELIEVE in something which FITS your particular TASTES in fairness, justice, etc.
For most, yes. But not for all. For some of us, we LEARNED such qualities FROM that Someone in whom we believe. I know I did...
In much the same way that you buy in to all of this you can reach a point where you buy out as well.
This is true, of course, even in the instance where there IS a "Someone." From Adham on, all have had the FREEDOM to CHOOSE. One way or another. Not all know this, however, due to the... ummmm... false teachings and binding burdens of "the scribes and Pharisees."
Then, you are truly free to OWN your values and become responsible for them and your actions.
Yes! But that is not limited to those who claim no God. The same is true of those of us who put our faith in the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. Because that is the BEAUTY... and LOVE... of that Son: know him and he will set you free. And if HE sets you free... you find that you are TRULY free! Such freedom, then, LOOSENS the things that "bind" you to THIS world... and its beliefs, knowledge and understanding... so that you can gain ACCESS into that one, as well. So long as you go through him, the Door.
Religious people do "good" because God tells them it is good.
I agree, as to "religious" people. Such ones are yet slaves, who don't know how to live as a FREE people... and so must be told, via written laws and creeds... what IS good to do. People who are truly joined to God through Christ, however, do good... because the good that God and Christ ARE... resides IN them. They can't do otherwise... without making a conscious, WILLFUL choice to do so. Because it is the "nature" of God and Christ now IN them that compels such good FROM them. They now, like those of the nations who do good things by nature... also do... by nature... naturally... such good things.
They repent of "evil" because God tells them to.
I disagree. They appear to repent of evil... but their politics, actions, hatreds, anger, underlying disregard/contempt of others, etc., belie such repentance. As slaves, they pick and choose which of the "master's" house rules they will follow. Thus, they have a FORM of godly devotion, but prove false to its power. People who are truly joined to God through Christ, however, do not repent of evil (except to the point of feeling repentance when they err)... but actually REPEL it... other than evil that is Death.
When you buy out of BELIEF as an absolute limit of imagination you are FREE TO CHOOSE and OWN your "good" and your "bad" and claim ownership honestly.
Yes, but once one is joined to Christ... and so TRULY free... one chooses, as well. Can't say "Devil made me do it." Won't fly, because all one needed to do was oppose that one. If one sins, one chooses to. BUT... those of us that do have a helper, Christ. Whose blood covers over our sins... if we put faith in it... and him.
There is such a difference! Remember, if a person commits atrocities and claims God or Satan told them to do it they are considered legally insane. Duh!
Yet, how many do so... and just keep the part about God/Satan to themselves. And people who do good things... and attribute it to God/Christ are often considered insane as well. Just speaking from [very] personal knowledge on that one.
I hope this helps and, again, bid you all peace!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
Shelby said:
More than fear are the [essences] of hate... and anger. While fear doesn't always result in hate/anger... a lack of love always does. So, the opposite of love is not fear, but hate/anger. Fully cover your hate/anger... with love... which is most easily born out in forgiveness/mercy... and you won't have fear. One can conquer one's fear and still have hate/anger. Because hate/anger more often finds its roots in contempt... versus in fear. But perfect love... meaning, love for even one's enemies... conquers them all: fear, hate, and anger.
Since this seems to be an issue of semantics, why don't I just let someone with a PhD in psychology explain it....
http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/article/hate
We are not made in God's image; we are made in Adham's image... after he sinned:
In case you haven't heard, dear Shelby, we've been around (and worshiping) a lot longer than "Adam". So if "Adam" wasn't the first man, your whole sin/redemption house of cards collapses into a heap of dust.
| Gobleki Tepe: The World's First Temple | |
| by Sandra Scham | |
Turkey's 12,000-year-old stone circles were the spiritual center of a nomadic people
I am sure Dr. Cherry is correct, dear ProdSon (peace to you!), as her position relates to the culture (western) we live in. Unfortunately, the world is not limited to the western culture. There are people who hate... pure and simple... and fear has absolutely nothing to do with it. They do not fear their enemies - they hate them. Really.
As regards whose image we are made in, dear Satanus (peace to you, as well!) asked a question with regard to "if" we are made in God's image. Since he obviously got that thinking from those who believe the statement "Let us made man in our image" meant to include ALL humans, I simply clarified for him that such was not the case.
your whole sin/redemption house of cards collapses into a heap of dust.
You know, I realize that it's easier to lump me in with those who live in such "house," but my residence is in a different "house." Truly. And, I do not believe in a literal 24-hour day in the creative days. So, a 12,000 year-old temple... indeed, even an older one... makes sense to me.
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
Actually Shelby, the length of the creative days is not the issue when it comes to Adam. As I'm sure you know, it's the geneologies listed from Adam to Jesus, as was plainly stated in the gospels, that the entire Orthodox Christian theology depends upon. Those are literal years, dear Shelby. There is simply no room for those extra 6,000 years dating back to the earliest known temple of worship...clearly separating those people from the Neanderthals.
If it isn't a metaphor, dear Shelby.... then I find it extremely unfair and illogical that the dude who supposedly caused all this mess lived for almost a thousand years (by THAT time I personally would be more than ready to depart the earthly scene), while the rest of us inherently sinful offspring are lucky if we ever see the age of 70.......
How come the god who controls all of Nature and gets kuddos for nice Sunsets and Rainbows gets a pass on flattening Haiti.
For women, however, love... causes you to feel... virtually all that you feel.
An emotion is a reaction. A reaction is not a primary cause. It is a reactionary impulse stimulated by a cause.
For example...
In the same way your knowledge of spiders as sometimes poisonous and stealthy will trigger a FEAR when a spider is seen quite suddenly..
the VALUE attached to SPIDER is the foundation for your reaction and not FEAR itself. SPIDER=bite/poisonous/pain=possible death.
LOVE is the same way.
The value you place on a tiny, soft, helpless kitten or puppy or baby triggers your emotion when you see one or hear it cry.
The primary is the VALUE which informs the evaluation of the creature or the sound and triggers the emotion: LOVE.
Not to belabor the point, but, consider this example:
When you read the word: EXPLOSION! the "meaning" comes from having learned to read, first of all, and then from seeing, hearing or having been taught what an EXPLOSION is/does.
Reading comprehension is not simply born into you when you come out of the uterus into daylight!
Comprehension is a lifelong process.
So too, attaching meaning (or, emotion) to events, objects, thoughts, etc.) is a learned process of VALUES.
1.Values=attaching meaning to something, someone or idea (values can be negative or positive).
2.Emotions=involuntary REACTIONS triggered by something. What, though? (see #1)
The strength of an emotion is equal to the strength of the interpretation of ITS VALUE in your system of "meaning." It is personal to each one of us and is not absolute to all of us OR born into us at birth.
There appear to be only two inborn or instinctive things in humans:fear response to falling and fear response to snakes. Behavioral scientists
attribute this to our arboreal origins. These two emotional responses are pre-wired. Apparently the "motherly instinct" isn't really an instinct. It is a learned response present only in those who were actually mothered themselves. Otherwise, it is altogether absent!
If you were cuddled, nursed, held, etc. that will be part of your interpretive system of values which trigger your "motherly reaction" to small, cuddly creatures. Otherwise, you couldn't care less and might hate kids and animals due to having experienced only the "nusiance factor."
God will show his love once again when he destroys all of mankind besides those who supposedly supported
the Watchtower Corporation. Didn't he do this once before ?
Amen
