The Mother of All Watchtower Errors

by Perry 45 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Perry

    Jonathan Dough,

    That is just simply brillaint analysis! Wow. The lengths the Watchtower has gone to in order to conceal the New Covenant never ceases to amaze me!

  • Listener

    When researching their publications the definition of the new covenant is very obscure and just to complicate things further is their idea that there are two covenants - Insight P 1126 " When mediating the new covenant Jesus made an additional covenant with his followers.. 'for a kingdom'."

    They say this covenant is with the spiritual Israel of God and only the 144,000 belong to this. Because revelation talks about judging the Israel of God they say that as it is not the 'spiritual' Israel it means all of mankind.

    They have closed the doors tof the Kingdom of God for the Great Crowd or 99.7% of their believers.

  • poopsiecakes
  • Scully

    Ethically, I disagree with the concept of punishing an innocent person for the crimes that someone else committed.

    It makes for good mythology, though, and seems to perpetuate the sagas of superheroes and demigods.

  • Perry

    I have bookmarked your site. Two of your paragraphs really spoke to me:

    Fourth, since the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe the twelve tribes of Israel at Revelation 7:1-8 are the anointed 144,000 and they are to judge the twelve tribes of Israel pursuant to Luke 22:28-30 and Matthew 19:28, they end up judging themselves.

    That is just astonishing in what the Wt is asking us to believe. Thank you for pointing that out.

    Only Christ’s blood can form the basis of reconciliation (Eph. 2:13-16), redemption (Rom. 3:24-25), justification and salvation (Rom. 5:9), sanctification (Heb. 10:29), and life itself (John 6:53-56). Without Christ’s shed blood ratifying the so-called “covenant with Christ’s followers,” none of this is attainable. But it is under the New Covenant.

    Of course Col. 1: 14 in the KJV can be added to the reference in Ephesians you cite thus providing two witnesses: (Home)

    In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins - Col. 1: 14

    Of course, all this begs the question : How in the world does a Jehovah's Witness hope to have his sins forgiven if he rejects the blood of the New Testament?

    Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
    Mark 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
    Luke 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
    1 Corinthians 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.


    They have utterly failed to live up to the divine command in 1 Peter 3: 15 :

    "be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you"

    Jehovah's Witnesses do not have the slightest idea as to whether or not their sins are forgiven. But the bible is clear: No blood covenant / No forgiveness ... PERIOD

    But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you,
    let him be accursed. Gal. 1: 8

  • Perry
    Ethically, I disagree with the concept of punishing an innocent person for the crimes that someone else committed.

    But Skully, you won't die and face judgment for what someone else did. Sometimes the bible makes it seem that way only because our sin nature is absolute, ie. all of us have it in varying degrees. But rest assured death and judgment is very personalized.

  • designs

    Perry, Jonathan-

    So how come the God of Love let his supposed 'Son' Jesus turn out so bad, how did he get off of the reservation and become so anit-Jewish and anti-Semetic. His Dad never wanted to torture anyone in the afterlife but Son#1 sure had a jones for sado-masichistic torture and then some.

    Makes you wonder if some very nasty Bishops maybe just maybe put some words into you know whose mouth?

    Now, we still have to resolve how the 'Christians' got the 'new covenant' so ass backwards as well. Gosh don't ask a Rabbi who might actually have a thought or two about it, gawd no.

  • Perry

    While there will be a number of judgments, the one that REALLY counts is the one at the great white throne. This is the one that the cross takes care of. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for anyone to fail this judgment and enter eternity alone, in outer darkness, or worse. This is the ultimate choice that faces everyone; where to spend eternity? The bible is very clear that death simply means the separation of the spirit/soul from the body. Thousands of others including myself have experienced things that provide for myself irrfutable proof that we possess a soul and that it can and will separate from the body under certain circumstances. This is a non-issue for me now. I feel great sorrow for those that reject or are unsure about this fact.


    God is the Judge of All

    Information about life after death and eternal judgment is sparse in the Old Testament. However, Daniel clearly describes a final resurrection of the dead divided into two classes:

    "At that time [the end-time] shall arise Michael, the great prince [archangel] who has charge of your people [Israel]. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time; but at that time your people shall be delivered, every one whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever." (Daniel 12:1-3)

    Judgments in the Bible are of various types and kinds. Often they are temporal---we all suffer lost opportunities in life due to inappropriate choices which have displeased God. Discerning the will of God (for believers) is described in Romans 12:1, 2 as being three-tiered. We are to prove in experience what is the will of God,"...what is good, acceptable and perfect." Excessively carnal behavior after one becomes a Christian can result in what is called a "sin unto death". This is essentially a foreshortening of one's lifespan on this earth due to sin.

    Other temporal judgments of God in history can include the destruction of a city or a nation due to sin. For instance, God ordained the total destruction of the Canaanite peoples who inhabited the promised land in the time of Abraham, though God granted them a stay of execution amounting to some 400 years (Deut. 10:16-18). The entire Old Testament records temporal judgments on Israel and the surrounding nations as well as judgments upon individuals or cities. Temporal judgments differ from eternal judgments in that the death of an individual because of such a judgment may be unrelated to whether or not a person is eternally saved or lost. First Corinthians 10 describes the death of an entire generation of Israelites in the wilderness of Sinai after the Exodus from Egypt. Even Moses was denied entrance into the land because of disobedience. Yet great numbers of these covenant people knew the Lord in their hearts and so will enter the eternal kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ. Lot's life in Sodom was hardly exemplary, yet he is described as a believer in the New Testament. Much more can be said on the general subject of temporal judgments from God which occur in history.

    To end this introduction on a positive note, it can be said that repentance and a whole-hearted turning to God often delays judgment--pushing it further into the future. We should be encouraged to know that "If we would judge ourselves we would not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world." (1 Corinthians 11:31-32).

    Seven Special Judgments of God

    Seven judgments described in Scripture have special significance. These are,

    (1) the judgment of the cross which includes the judgment of the believer's sins,

    (2) the self-judgment of the believer whereby we avoid God's judgment for sins, (1 Cor. 11:31);

    (3) the judgment seat of Christimmediately after the believer's death where the quality of a Christian's life is evaluated and rewarded, (2 Cor. 5:10);

    (4) the "sheep and goat" judgment at the start of the Millennium determining which gentiles may enter the kingdom;

    (5) the judgment of Israel at the beginning of the Millennium. This is described in Ezekiel 20:33-44;

    (6) The judgment of fallen angels, (Jude 6, 1 Cor. 6:3) and,

    (7) The great white throne judgment (or "last judgment") of unbelievers at the end of the Millennium.

    Judgments in Eternity are outside of Time

    Although the last judgment follows 1000 years after the second coming of Christ to earth, as far as earth-time is concerned, when any individual dies he or she immediately leaves time and enters eternity---there is no intermediate state. In the experience of that individual, whether he is a believer or an non-believer, the next event experienced is one of two judgments. Unfortunately in our culture we are so accustomed to thinking of time as linear and everywhere the same in the universe. But, it is clear from the Bible that mortal man is trapped in a linear time frame, whereas heaven runs by different set of clocks (See Time and Eternity.) At physical the individual time-travels in an instant to one of two judgments---either reward or eternal punishment. This immediate judgment after death (as far as eternity is concerned), for both believers and unbelievers, is described for us in connection with the Second coming of Christ in glory (his epiphaneia) recorded in 2 Thess. 2:

    "...we ourselves boast of you in the churches of God for your steadfastness and faith in all your persecutions and in the afflictions which you are enduring. This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be made worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering---since indeed God deems it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant rest with us to you who are afflicted, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at in all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed." (v 4-10)

    All judgment of mankind is committed to the Lord Jesus Christ. One man, Christ Jesus, is now ruling our entire universe as the Lord of time and space, and nature, and history, and human affairs. Every person's life and destiny is in his hands. Jesus himself said this:

    "For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

    "Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself, and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man. Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. (John 5:21-29)

    The setting of the judgment of the great white throne is associated with an event in the Bible called the "second" resurrection.

    "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are ended...

    "...Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened.

    Also another book was opened, which is the book of life.

    And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.

    And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.

    Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.

    This is the second death, the lake of fire; and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:5, 6; 11-15)

    Two different documents are presented at this awesome courtroom scene. Books recording the life-deeds of every individual are presented. These books are evidently the records kept by recording angels (see for example, Ezekiel and The Destruction of Jerusalem). The second book is "the Lamb's Book of Life" where the names of all believers are written "before the foundation of the world," (Rev. 13:8, see also, Phil. 4:3, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 13:8, Rev. 17:8, Rev. 20:12, Rev. 21:27). Although eternal separation from God might seem to be in itself the most awful and terrible ultimate punishment in itself, the text strongly suggests that there are degrees of punishment in the lake of fire, for "all were judged by what they had done."

    Ray C. Stedman, late pastor of Peninsula Bible Church in Palo Alto, California offers the following comments on the judgment of the great white throne:

    Here is a startling and terrifying scene. Imagine standing on a starship, watching the earth and the planets recede from view, the stars moving against the background of eternal night. That is the vision suggested by John's words, "Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them." This suggests that all of humanity will be removed from earth, perhaps from the universe as we know it, to eternity itself, where there is no space and no time. That is where judgment will take place.

    The judge is Jesus, not God the Father. "The Father judges no one," said Jesus, "but has entrusted all judgment to the Son." It is Jesus who sits upon the Great White Throne of majesty and gathers all the dead before Him. There will also be some living people from the Millennium, far it must be determined if their names are recorded in the book of life Judgment will be "according to what one had done." Deeds reveal the condition of the heart. Deeds reveal belief.

    All the deeds of mankind are preserved in God's great library. Books are a symbol of the eternal record of our lives. If John were receiving this vision today, the symbol would probably be videotape or computer disks rather than books. The books are metaphors for the record of every life---and the final judgment of every life shall be made on the basis of that record.

    Only those whose names are in the book of life can do righteous deeds. Only the deeds of the righteous will survive the fire of judgment. All other deeds will be consumed to ashes. Only those acts that have been done by the power of the Spirit of God and done for the glory of God will remain. Even the noblest and most impressive accomplishments, even acts which have helped many people or changed the course of history---if they were done by the power of the self and for the glory of the self---will vanish without a trace.

    If your name is not in the book of life, your evil deeds will be revealed. All the hidden comers of your life will be subjected to scrutiny. Nothing will go unnoticed. Today you may have a reputation for your devotion, your caring, your humility, your abilities---but in that day Jesus will judge the hidden motives behind your deeds. He will know if your real reason for service in the church and the community was to glorify God---or if it was all tainted by selfishness, pride, and the lust for prominence, power, influence, and recognition...

    When Jesus sent out the twelve disciples to minister to other cities and towns in Israel, they returned rejoicing that they had cast out demons with just a word of command. They were amazed at the power of God that was flowing through them, at the wonderful deeds that were being accomplished, at the fact that even the demons submitted to them in the name of Jesus.

    "Do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you," Jesus replied, "but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."

    That is the central question in life: Is your name written in the Lamb's book of life? Beside this one issue, everything else pales in comparison. Your name is written in that book when you commit your life to Jesus.

    No one needs to face the lake of fire. No one goes into the Abyss against his or her own will. It is a choice we all make in this life. If we refuse the Savior, God can only give us the fate we demand.

    The issue of eternal punishment raises a problem in the minds of most thoughtful Christians: What about those who have never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ? Isn't it unfair that someone should be condemned to an eternity apart from God simply because he never had the opportunity to hear about Jesus? This is a difficult question, but it is addressed in Scripture. Hebrews 11:6 tells us, "Anyone who comes to [God] must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek Him." God knows the intent and condition of every human being, and He will deal with every individual according to the great declaration of Scripture, "Far be it from [God] to...kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike...Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

    We know that God only holds us accountable for the light of understanding we have received. Those of us who have received more revelation are responsible for how we respond to that revelation. Scripture does not explicitly tell us the fate of those who have not heard of Jesus, of the cross and the empty tomb, of the grace of God and the forgiveness of sins. But the Bible does tell us that God will deal justly with them.

    The question that confronts you and me, since we have received so much of the revelation of God's truth, is this: Have our names been written in the Lamb's book of life? Jesus knows our hearts. Nothing is hidden from His view. If we come to Him, we belong to Him and He to us. We need fear nothing from the final judgment and the second death.

    (God's Final Word: Understanding Revelation,Discovery House, 1991. Available from Discovery Publishing, 3505 Middlefield Rd., Palo Alto, CA 94306)


  • designs

    The thesis: Faulty assumptions and premises= Bad Religion

    The basic problem with Christianity is that it makes claims to things that don't belong to it. Because of this followers felt empowered to continue taking from others things which didn't belong to them: Human lives, Land, and Culture. Native or Indigenous Peoples throughout the world lost themselves to Christian slavery, lost their homes and lands, and their cultures and languages. Why. Because when you start with a faulty assumption and premise such as a seemingly benign thing as claiming the 'New Covenant' for yourself, really bad things follow due to that corrupt and false sense of entitlement.

    Our former religion, Jehovah's Witnesses, is but one small example of this. Christianity in all of its forms is the bigger culprit from the Church of Rome to the self proclaimed Born Again Fundamentalist.

    It is difficult for persons in these Faiths to recognize their participation and accountability untill some moment breaks the addiction. Perhaps they should reflect on the list of the Seven Deadly Sins for a clue, Numbers 3.6.7. seem like good places to start the self reflection 3.Greed, 6.Envy, 7.Pride.

    Clean up your own house before you ruin others.

  • isaacaustin

    Perry said:

    I have bookmarked your site. Two of your paragraphs really spoke to me:

    Fourth, since the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe the twelve tribes of Israel at Revelation 7:1-8 are the anointed 144,000 and they are to judge the twelve tribes of Israel pursuant to Luke 22:28-30 and Matthew 19:28, they end up judging themselves.

    That is just astonishing in what the Wt is asking us to believe. Thank you for pointing that out.

    My reply:
    Actually Perry if you ask a JW this it would obviously stump them. But I do believe the WT assert that the 12 tribes spoken of in Matthew mean something different from the 12 tribes in Rev. They never mention the two verses at the same time...but define them in different ways.

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