What is the longest you know of a Fader being out of the JW's and then DF'd?

by Think About It 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  poopsiecakes

  A similar thing happened to me, Palm. I had moved across the country, went to a couple of meetings at the local congregation (huge mistake) then stopped going altogether for over a year. Low and behold, I get a phone call to attend a JC thanks to a tipoff from someone back home who had been in witch hunt mode for a while. I put them off, finally attended the kangaroo court after a registered letter stating that it would take place without me and in less than 2 hours I was df'd by 3 men who had barely clapped eyes on me and had zero interest in 'encouraging' me 'spiritually'. I appealed the decision and told the appeal committee that these 'brothers' had made no attempt at a shepherding call in the year and a half I hadn't been to a meeting and they only showed interest in me when they smelled blood in the water. I also made the point that as I had not turned in a field service report in a year and a half, I was not among the number of witnesses appearing in Canada's total or the global total so as a non-witness, how could I be df'd?

  It didn't make sense to me then and it makes even less sense to me now but isn't it fun to sit there with 3 men in front of you who you've never had a conversation with and be expected to divulge your most private stuff? How degrading...
• 

  palmtree67

  I didn't attend my JC.

  My ex told them where I was.

  They sat outside our place and could tell we were living together. I couldn't afford to move out on my own, we were busted.

  I was df'd by 3 men who had barely clapped eyes on me and had zero interest in 'encouraging' me 'spiritually'

  So true. Where were they during all the abuse? No one gave a rat's patootie about me then.....
• 

  TD

  With deep respect to all of you, I think there might be a tiny bit of the JW mindset still lingering here. I know that JW's believe that they are a "Worldwide organization" etc., etc., etc., but this is a religious belief and not legal reality. There's a big difference. (Feel free to whack me upside the head with a 2 X 4 if I'm misunderstanding something.....)

  A minister does not have the authority to discipline you because he or she says they do. A minister has this authority because you have in some way granted it to them.

  I'll use myself as an example. What would happen if whatever local congregation my wife attends (Not sure of the name) attempted to discipline me because of some infraction I've allegedly committed? There are legal remedies when someone makes trouble for you without a legal basis for doing so. Harassment, alienation of filial affection, defamation of character and slander are all viable torts and the elders involved would deeply regret it by the time I was through with them. They do not have the legal authority to discipline me.

  The situation is a little more complicated if you have been baptized as a JW because you have in fact granted that authority to at least some people. The question is "Who has that authority?" Is it every single minister within a given denomination? Usually the answer is "No." Most denominations are organized in a way that indemnifies the parent organization from legal actions and this limits the extent of ecclesiastical authority to the responsible legal entity. In the Catholic church for example, it is the diocese.

  If the JW parent organization does protect itself by making individual JW congregations independent autonomous bodies on matters of church discipline, then only the elders in a congregation you have been affliated with have this authority. (Poopsiecakes is right that setting foot in a new congregation is a huge mistake.)

  (I suspect that this is the case because I don't believe JW "Circuits" and "Districts" are actually legal entities and that there is in fact no legal entity at all standing between the congregation and the parent organization.)
• 

  palmtree67

  If the JW parent organization does protect itself by making individual JW congregations independent autonomous bodies on matters of church discipline, then only the elders in a congregation you have been affliated with have this authority.

  I believe each congregation is independent when it comes to discipline on paper. For instance, if a congregation is sued legally, I'm quite certain, the WTS will claim they were acting independently of them.

  In real life, though, each elder feels they are "in charge" of whoever is in their territory - the territories being imaginary lines on a map.

  I just don't agree with the whole idea of hunting people down.

  I mean, I wasn't a threat to their unity or whatever. No one in the cong knew who I was, they didn't know I was even in town. They don't know me or my situation.

  I left. Leave me alone.
• 

  james_woods

  I probably should note that I meant my comment of "they will leave you alone if you don't rock the boat" in the sense of someone who just fades, and leaves the witnesses without making much of a stir.

  A marital JC is much more instrusive - simply because they are obsessed with finding some "sin" which can get the remaining JW free to remarry.

  A religious disagreement (like my case) will get prosecuted by the GB if you talk to other people about their doctrine in a negative way (which I certainly did).
• 

  TD

  James:

  A religious disagreement (like my case) will get prosecuted by the GB if you talk to other people about their doctrine in a negative way (which I certainly did).

  Prosecuted or sued? (Prosecuted = Criminal offense / Sued = Civil complaint) If it is the latter what would be the basis of the complaint? Did you sign an agreement or are we talking about a frivolous lawsuit worthy of the Church of Scientology?

  By GB do you mean "Governing Body?"

  Palmtree:

  In real life, though, each elder feels they are "in charge" of whoever is in their territory - the territories being imaginary lines on a map.

  Could it be that the average elder just doesn't know?
• 

  undercover

  A minister does not have the authority to discipline you because he or she says they do. A minister has this authority because you have in some way granted it to them.

  The WT elder is given a title and a handbook and it gives them a perceived notion of power or superiority. But it is true that the only real authority is that what you, as a JW, allow them to have. But that's easier said than done, looking at it from the JW, or even faded JW perspective who has to tread lightly to keep the wolves at bay.

  JWs are indoctrinated to accept the elders as leaders and shepards of the congregation...and not just necessarily their local congregation but anywhere they may be at a particular time, they're to look to the elders as spiritual heads.

  With respect to an outsider who has never subjected themself to the authority of the WTS or their local elders, it can be very hard to understand just how we were manipulated and how we accepted without question their authority, never realizing that it was only as strong as we allowed it to be. It's not the same as accepting the authority of a baptist or methodist church minister.

  Once free of that cult-think though, we know now that they don't have real authority over us. Yet at the same time, it may not stop them from carrying on with their judicial decisions against us even in our absence should we refuse to cooperate. We have debated before whether DFing in absentia is allowed by WT rules but in the end, it does happen. I may refuse to meet with them, I may refuse to acknowledge their position but they can still DF or announce me DAd if they so choose. And those in the congreation that still allow them to hold authority over them will obey the WT rule of shunning based on their decisions made even without my cooperation or knowledge. My refusal of accepting their authority does not mean anything to those that do still accept it and obey their voice.

  So authority granted to them or not, their actions and decisions can impact our lives even after we walk away and refuse to accept their authority.
• 

  Think About It

  My ex told them where I was.

  They sat outside our place and could tell we were living together.

  Being staked out by elders you don't know is even creepier than being stalked by elders that you do know.

  Think About It
• 

  leavingwt

  You can be disfellowshipped for ANYTHING and at ANY TIME, so long as three elders agree to it.
• 

  moshe

  It would be about 15 years for my ex-wife as a deserter/unbeliever from the KH- I'm a goood guy and never ratted her out to the new KH.