"Are you In the Truth?"

by Nickolas 202 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  tec

  Yes, Nick, but which parts are scripture? Letters written to other people about their personal conflicts? A report in the gospels from Luke to Theopholus? He never said that he was inspired, only that he investigated.

  And what about the choosing of NT? Were all the other letters inspired and scripture? Why didn't they get included?

  Did Paul (when he said this) think that his letters were scripture, or that the letters written that he did not know about (Peter, Jude, revelations, etc) were scripture? How does that make sense?

  Tammy
• 

  tec

  but, Tammy, think about this. How can the Bible be the sole source of Christian information, the sole inspiration of modern Christian faith and the sole means of carrying Christianity through the ages and not be equated to faith itself?

  The bible can be a witness to things that happened - tell us about this man from Nazareth, and what some people thought of him. It can be a tool that sets us on a path to Christ. But even it says to go to Christ in Spirit. However, without the Spirit, the bible wouldn't mean much except perhaps for an interesting read and some rules to follow - perhaps also a tool to control the masses, which some have used it as.

  (and now I have to go to work - be back this evening)

  Tammy
• 

  Nickolas

  Scripture, by definition, is the entire Bible, Tammy. One cannot say parts of the Bible are scripture and parts are not. It is all scripture, sometimes referred to as The Holy Scriptures, plural. I might counter your question with another one. Where does it say otherwise?
• 

  AGuest

  Christianity is based 100% (one hundred percent) on the Bible, there is no other source.

  This is a huge error, HUGE... and one even I used to believe in. One is not a christian because one believes what's in the Bible. One is a chrisitian because one is a "chosen" (kristos/christ) "person" (ian)... by means of an anointing with holy spirit. Prior to that occurrence I "knew" I belonged to God. Even as a child. And I thought I would find others "like" me by associating with those in various "christian" religions. Each time, however, I would find nothing near what I was looking for. Oh, yes, I heard a WHOLE lot of words that SOUNDED like I was "among" or "near" those like me. But eventually, time would show that the words were just that... words... and actually quite empty. Most were following men, and many were only "christians" on, say, the weekend or during assembly times, etc.

  During this time I was a "babe"... and so "under men in charge." Until, as Paul (?) wrote, "the day my Father appointed beforehand." On that day the Most Holy One of Israel and His Son, the Holy One of Israel, came to me. And spoke to me. And I heard them, clearly, and so I answered them.

  Now, I get it that there are those out there who will weep and gnash their teeth and say, "What makes YOU so special??" or "Oh, you're just delusional, you have some kind of God-complex and think you're all that." What can I say to that? I am no more special that anyone else with faith. And perhaps I am crazy, but it hasn't negatively affected my life one bit. It was all of that "sane" melarkey taught by religion that did. Either way, such ones will think what they will. Personally, I wouldn't take it personal if someone said what I have just shared here to me. My position would be: "Well, good for you. But that's for YOU... and I must find him for myself." But I wouldn't cultivate hate, disgust, disregard, or any other negative feeling for such a person. If THEY are happy... truly happy... then I am happy FOR them! Because MY life isn't affected one cubit by THEIR life... one way or another (and it is only false religious leaders who say you must listen to THEM, who tell you that your life IS so affected!).

  My own life experience tells ME that there is a God... and there is Christ... regardless of what ANYONE else believes. I don't NEED anyone else to hear God, see Christ... or believe me... in order for ME to know this. My faith is not based on what OTHERS say is or is not true... but on what God and Christ say to me... and have shown me. Which things I CANNOT deny. Even if I wanted to. For ME, it would be like saying none of you exist, either.

  One of the main reasons that some here DON'T hear/see Christ... is that statement above: that "christianity" is based on the Bible and that there is no other source. THIS IS A LIE. The SOURCE of christianity... is Christ. There is NO other. Yet, folks keep looking to the Bible trying to find them. THEY ARE NOT IN THERE, dear ones! If you don't believe that, if you don't possess the tiny mustard-seed of faith so AS to hear and/or see them, so be it. That is your choice and you should be quite well left alone to live your life by it. However, there are those who DO believe, who DO possess such faith... who DO hear and see... and who do not try to make/guilt others into following THEM... and they, too, should be left alone to live THEIR lives by such.

  When you dismiss "christianity" you really should be sure to dismiss the FORM of "godly devotion" that many CALL "christianity", but which proves false to its POWER. That people "do good" to others does not make them "christians." The "nations" do such good as well. And they are to be commended because by doing such good they CAN be called righteous. Like the Samaritan. But that doesn't make one a christian... and if you believe the so-called "christians" who say that it does... you are continuing to be misled. Eventually, even that lie will come to light and you will find yourself having been misled... yet once again... to your even greater chagrin.

  The ONLY way to avoid being misled is to follow the One "who speaks from the heavens." For the mouth of THAT One utters truth itself... and in it there is found NOTHING unrighteous.

  You think me a fool for what I say I know and believe? Think what you will - what you think has absolutely NO bearning on my life whatsoever. Indeed, I AM a fool... and the first one to admit that. But my foolishness is for something... for someone... who constantly and consistently rewards me for it. Not just with worldly goods... but most often with things of the spirit... things on which you cannot put a price.

  We make ourselves fools for those we love on the earth. Why not take it one step further and be a fool for those we love who exist in the "heavens"? Because of our faith... and humility... some of us can. Because of a lack of faith... and pride... some of us can't. NONE of us, however, should judge the other. Because neither will win any to his way of thinking doing so.

  I bid you all peace... and ask your forgiveness for the revelation of MY truth. I could not help myself.

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  Nickolas

  It puzzles me that you can quote scripture to backstop your faith, SA, yet deny scripture as the source of your faith? You claim devine inspiration. But I have not been afforded such a gift, so how can I know you speak the truth? You anticipate my response well.

  And do you think that unto such as you
  A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
  God gave a secret, and denied it me?
  Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!—THE RUBAIYAT OF OMAR KHAYYAM

  A slave of rationality.

  Nick
• 

  AGuest

  Scripture, by definition, is the entire Bible, Tammy. One cannot say parts of the Bible are scripture and parts are not. It is all scripture, sometimes referred to as The Holy Scriptures, plural. I might counter your question with another one. Where does it say otherwise?

  The 24th Chapter of Luke, dear Nik (peace to you!). You must keep in mind that the modern Bible cannon was not compiled until the 4th century CE. Prior to that, the compilation consisted of the Septuagint, which didn't contain anything after Malachi. You must also keep in mind the truths that dear Tammy shared (peace to you, dear one!). For example, that neither of Luke's accounts were "inspired." Nor were any other books of the NT, except the Revelation, the ONLY book written while the write was "in spirit" (i.e., "inspired"), and thus, borne along by the Holy Spirit, and TOLD to write.

  But let me ask you: if the Bible is "all scripture"... where is the Book of Enoch? The Book of Jashur? The Book of Jubilees? Where is Paul's FIRST letter to the Corinthians? The first three ARE scripture; yet, they're not in the Bible canon. The last MUST be, yes, if the other two letters are?? Yet, it's not there.

  You have been misled, dear Nikolas, as so many have been... including me at one time. The Bible is not even the word of God: Christ is that Word, even at the Bible itself states... in more places and more ways than one.

  Please, do yourself a favor: stop listening to what earthling man has told you the Bible is... and says. At least read the Bible to see what IT says about these things. Then you will at least have a basis to start your argument as to whether or not it is scripture. You will find, I think, that it is not.

  Again, I bid you peace!

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  Nickolas

  For ME, it would be like saying none of you exist, either

  The difference is, we are actually talking to you and everyone else can see it happening. If God is talking to you alone, you are the only one who hears. That is delusion.
• 

  Nickolas

  You think me a fool for what I say I know and believe?

  No, dear lady. But, and I say this gently and with genuine respect, I do think you are delusional. It is clear to me I have pushed a button with you and maybe spoiled your day. I apologise. It was not my intent.
• 

  PSacramento

  And that, my dear PSacramento (and Tammy) is precisely the point. You don't see because you cannot see. Fundamentalist Christians do see, and that is why they have to swallow their incredulity over clearly unbelievable accounts in the Bible and accept them as literal truth.

  Well, the problem with that view is that for Christians, the bible is NOT held as supreme, Christ is.

  Christ is the word of God, nothing else.

  Scripture ( the OT books that were viewed as such by 1st century Christians) were used to teach about Christ and the history of the Hebrews, scripture was the teaching tool of the apostles and their followers, along with the teachings of Christ and where they two would SEEM to butt heads, Christ's teachings would prevail.

  The bible writes caution its readers to read with disconcernment, Christ said:

  "You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life." (John 5:39,40

  The scriptures serve to GUIDE a person to Christ, not to take the palce of Christ or God or even common sense.

  Fundamentalist may complain when non-fundamentalist interpret the bible to what is metaphore and what is literal, but THEY do the samething ( No fundmentalist believes that jesus actually meant we should rip out our eyes if they offend us), the difference is when they choose to FORCE a doctrin they BELIEVE to be literal and people say that it is NOT literal.

  From the very first day the oral tradtions were penned, people were interpreting them, from the Jews to the Christains and that will always remain the same.

  And that is how it should be.
• 

  PSacramento

  It puzzles me that you can quote scripture to backstop your faith, SA, yet deny scripture as the source of your faith? You claim devine inspiration. But I have not been afforded such a gift, so how can I know you speak the truth? You anticipate my response well.

  Not to speak for Shelby but only for myself, the only time I quote the bible is when I am making a point FROM the bible, typically to soemone that aslo made a point from the bible.

  I think that is a person doesn't hold the bible as "the final say in the matter" then discussing it is quite irrelevant, outside of historical context, BUT the moment someone decides to use the bible to voice an opinion then it is via the bible and our interpretation of it, that we can discuss that opinion.