Challenges Facing the Watchtower Org

by eric356 96 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • dozy
    dozy

    It does present a potential legal nightmare for the WTBTS. What would happen , for example , if the Madrid branch committee decided against the sale of their branch and transfer of the funds to the USA , arguing that the Branch was paid for by Spanish brothers.

    On a national basis , generally the courts have decided that assets belong to the parent church ( see http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125909715655362891.html which discusses the breakaway factions of the Episcopol church). On an international basis however , the situation is much vaguer. As Mad Sweeny correctly says , the WTBTS have deliberately fragmented their assets into property holding companies , operating agencies without any assets and numerous different companies designed to mitigate any catastrophic legal liability (for example a class action paedophile claim). Many will recall the Californian child abuse cases that the WTBTS settled for many millions of dollars out of court where the WTBTS claimed that they had no incorporation or organisation whatsoever in California.

    Courts generally have taken the position that the group that most closely resembles the original doctrines & practices of the religion is the "parent" and holds the assets. Yet with the numerous flip flops & "new light" from the WTBTS who is to determine who is the parent? Notably the WTBTS didn't go after the breakway group in Romania ( http://the-true-jw.oltenia.ro/ ) that split after the "change in thought" on the superior authorities in 1962. What would happen if their was another major change from the WTBTS (eg downgrading blood transfusions to a conscious matter or scrapping 607 / 1914) and a branch didn't agree with it?

    While many national courts may eventually recognise the ultimate authority of Jehovah's witnesses as being held by Brooklyn , what about those lands where the local JWs have deliberately been told to distance themselves from the USA or where the culture and practice of the authorities is somewhat anti-American (eg Russia).

  • sir82
    sir82

    I can't picture any "charismatic leader" rising up.

    In JW-land, conformity and adherence to orthodoxy are rewarded. Original thoughts and creativity are viewed with skepticism at best, more likely suspicion.

    The path to the GB is long and arduous. One has to "prove his mettle" with decades of uber-loyal service as a CO, DO, missionary, or Bethel/ Branch heavy.

    The way to rise through the ranks is to strictly and unswervingly obey organizational dictates to the tiniest detail. This would have to be done for 2, 3, or 4 decades, day after dreary day, unceasingly saying "well, how does 'the slave' say we hould handle this?"

    Then finally, after hundreds or thousands of repititions of this formula ('how does the slave want me to do this?'), a guy might make the GB. Now,suddenly, he's going to "flip the switch" and become a dynamic, creative leader?

    I don't see it.

    The idea of a branch or branches breaking away is intriguing. I hadn't thought of it before, but the more I think of it, the more I see the possibility, particularly in Europe.

    There is a strong and growing "anti-American" sentiment there, in general, and JWs can easily get caught up in it as well. The virtual adulation and worship given to GB members that is so common in the USA is just not seen in Europe.

  • Soldier77
    Soldier77

    Great thread discussions.

    potleg, great analysis and thinking in your theory, however, I don't see a single charismatic person takeover happening. The reason I don't see it happening is because for the last 25-30 years they have 'reformed' the leadership status of the org. Gone are the 'President' or sole ruler as it were, but now a 'committee' GB, based on a 2/3 majority vote etc. They spent years to abolish the possibility of a rogue usurper to the 'throne' to take full control. They are a headless monster atm however, who really is leading the org and taking reign? Ole TJ wasn't called "The Boss" for shits and grins, it was a true title of his 'position'.

    It would be awesome if some Bethel insider would give us the 'on the ground' gossip of who is the new head or who is vying for the position, but I haven't heard much.

    Randy got it right, they are floundering atm, they are in crisis mode. Everything coming from the top is rehashed recirculated bullshit that has been coming out of there for the last 130 years. Keep everyone on high alert, keep everyone under high control, the rank and file are exhausted and are starting to look at other options, the turnover rate is just too high for growth.

    Someone also brought out that there is a lot of growth in South America, I disagree. They just shut down or in the process of closing up all the branches in S.A. and moving them to Mexico for control/distribution, there is a movement within the S.A. JW community to speak out against shunning. Spain, France shut down their branches, moved shop to Germany, didn't they move another 2 to Germany as well? They are merging the Alaskan and Hawaii branches together, not sure where the hosting site will be out of those two, but nevertheless, another consolidation.

    Another thing to consider is Japan, once lauded as a major growth region has been showing 0 to negative numbers. Jamaica branch has 27 workers! They've been downsizing for the last year and a half or so. The society is selling off real estate in Brooklyn to stay afloat, moving upstate to the 'compound'.

    They are already tightening the grip. Look at the review notes from last month's Annual Meeting. Calling the older ones murmurers as the Isrealites! They are browing beating the flock! It is just the begining of what is coming. More hardline dogma. More locking down the so-so dedicated ones and keeping the zealots.

    All of this will be pushed as in the name of Jehovah, the start of the Great Tribulation and persecution of Jah's people. How long will it last? I'm anticipating by 2012 to have another change happen, another 2 years later and another, the next 10 years will change the WTS drastically. In what way? I don't know, but I don't want to be in it!

  • Soldier77
    Soldier77

    Clarification on my Japan statement, I haven't personally confirmed those growth numbers so I may have made a false claim there.... sorry.

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    Soldier77 - I believe it was last year they merged Alaska into the US branch and this 9-1, Hawaii also came under the US branch. I think also last year, they moved the Turks & Caicos islands under the US branch.

  • Soldier77
    Soldier77

    Awesome, thanks DB! I'm behind on some current events.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Doubting Bro, I just had a thought regarding the hyped-up 4% growth the US Branch supposedly saw last year. In conversation online, much of that growth was attributed to the new 15-minute rule for regular publishers, but now I'm wondering whether the Borg didn't also create growth in the US Branch by simply adding in the numbers from other absorbed branches like Alaska and Hawaii. Of course, those states aren't huge populations but every little bit of number padding helps when you've got an image to uphold, right?

  • Gayle
    Gayle

    Soldier77, you're right about Japan!

    Japan - 2007 - 217,929 pubs. 4,308 baptized 18,728 pio.

    2008 - 217,339 pubs. 3,806 baptized 18,116 pio.

    2009 - 217,530 pubs. 3,502 baptized 16,468 pio.

    Not increasing pubs. - flatlining,, but baptisms getting lower,,pioneers decreasing

    ,

  • metatron
    metatron

    I doubt you're going to get a charismatic leader because of jealousy and factionalism within the GB. Think Loesch or Herd will be dictated to by some 'new boy' on the GB? Not gonna happen. The emergence of a Gorbachev would lead to the same outcome as the Soviets, anyway.

    Keep an eye on incidents that suggest a trend of verbally beating the friends as this would be very significant. They have an internal standard within the Writing Dept. not to do this, as it could be very destructive to the organization. You need go no further than the Bible account of Rehoboam to realize this is a bad idea.

    They aren't tightening their grip - they wish they could tighten their grip! It's slipping away!

    Whether they realize it or not, they have fallen into legal dilemmas. Do they control Kingdom Halls as a religious hierarchy? Then they are equally liable as the Catholic church is. Did they split up the organization's assets into nine corporations to escape lawsuits and make the Branches legally independent? Then they have opened the door to rebellion.

    I say they are royally screwed.

    metatron

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    5 ,6, and 8 can relate to the WTS

    We looked at jobs that are obsolete or on their way out. Here are 10 of our favorites:

    1. Elevator operator

    Once upon a time, elevators were operated manually and someone had to "drive" them. The operator chose the floors to stop on and had to get the doors to land as close to floor level as possible. Eventually, push-button controls were invented, yet elevators were able to take passengers only on individual trips, so they needed operators to take the most efficient routes. Today, elevators are automatic, lessening the need for operators, but a few work in tourist buildings and some apartment buildings.

    2. File clerk

    File clerks -- and clerical jobs in general -- are being phased out. More files are being stored online and on computers, diminishing the need for people to do the work manually. The occupation is expected to shrink by nearly a quarter in the next decade, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

    3. Iceman

    Before electric refrigerators, people stored their food in iceboxes. To keep the iceboxes stocked, icemen delivered 25- to 100-pound ice blocks to homes several times a week. Nowadays, we have freezers, most of which come with automatic ice dispensers. Today's icemen deliver only to schools, restaurants and catering companies.

    4. Inspectors, testers, samplers, sorters and weighers

    These are quality-control inspectors. They make sure your car runs smoothly, your chip bag is sealed and your pants won't split the first time you wear them. But, as with many manufacturing jobs, these positions are declining slowly because of machines that automatically inspect goods and assembly workers who monitor the safety of goods as they are made on the line. The occupation is expected to decline by 4 percent by 2018, according to the BLS.

    5. News vendors, street vendors and door-to-door salesmen

    Although street vendors are more common in big cities, the times of people trying to sell you things on the sidewalk are passing. These days, every sales pitch comes with an ad or marketing campaign. And now that you can market and sell everything online, there is less of a need to sell goods in person. These positions are expected to decline rapidly through 2018.

    6. Machine feeders and offbearers

    True to their job titles, machine feeders and offbearers insert materials into and take materials out of machines to speed up the production line. But as automation continues to take over in the manufacturing industry, people will be needed less and less and these occupations will continue to be phased out. About 22 percent of these jobs are expected to be lost, according to the BLS.

    7. Milkman

    Milkmen used to make dairy deliveries to homes every week. Almost 30 percent of consumers had milk delivered, according to a 1963 survey by the Agriculture Department. But as time went on, it became more convenient for consumers to buy milk at groceries. By 1975, only 7 percent of people got milk deliveries and in 2005, it was less than 0.5 percent. Interestingly enough, today there's an increasing number of vendors that are delivering more than just milk -- they deliver entire grocery orders.

    8. Paper goods machine setters, operators and tenders

    These people set up, operate or tend paper goods machines. These machines perform a variety of functions, including converting, banding, wrapping, boxing, stitching and sealing paper into products -- pretty much anything humans can do to paper. But the world doesn't run on paper anymore (at least not as much), and when this job does need to be done, a machine can do it. By 2018, the BLS predicts this occupation will lose 21.5 percent of its jobs.

    9. Switchboard operators

    Switchboard operators used a "cord board" to connect callers by plugging incoming lines and metal pegs into the corresponding hole on the board to connect with the correct caller. Long-distance callers were routed through operators, but with only a limited number of lines. If all circuits were busy, operators took callers' number and called them back when a line was available. Now, with the advancement of technology, cell phones and long-distance plans, the need for these operators has diminished.

    10. Typist

    Before computers and word processors became common, typists -- most of them women -- wrote up office documents using typewriters. If they performed well enough, they usually got promoted to secretary (another dying position). Nowadays, most professionals type their own documents, and those who don't employ an executive assistant.

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