by booby 56 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
ElderPatrol,
You don't seem to have answered...so can I ask you a serious question? Based on your posts, are you trying to say that
A) it is perfectly plausible to be an "un-inspired" prophet
B) because you use a definition of the word prophet that you have chosen, as opposed to the prognostication common to many Biblical prophets
If so, can you advise what relevance, if any, the Mosiac definition of false prophecy has today?
PP
Also, Elder Patrol, I've heard the defense of both Kings and Chronicles regarding false prophecy. But this organization has not been guilty of false prophecy once, twice, or even three times. They have a life course (organizationally) of false prophecies. Plus, Jesus himself told us to watch out for them. He said they would come TO US. Where do JWs go? They go directly TO YOU AT YOUR HOUSE.
Listen, this is a powerful line of reasoning with JWs. Whether you think it is weak or not, the proof is in the results and it has helped thousands to see the truth of this organization.
Elder-Patrol writes:
Read 1 Chronicles 17:1-4. The prophet Nathan was flat-out wrong. Eventually God corrected that prophet and the prophet subsequently corrected his proclamation.
"Eventually"?????? The Scripture states (vs. 3) that it came about "on that night" that Almighty God corrected the prophet's off-the-cuff remark to David. Now, if God had waited for sixty or seventy years before correcting it, that may have provided an example analogous to the proclamations of the errant Watch Tower Society...
In addition, unlike Nathan, the Society actually blames God for the falsehoods they declare in His name:
13 The fact that decides the answer to the question is, not, Do all the clergy of Roman Catholicism and of Protestantism agree that Jehovah’s witnesses have been and are God’s prophet to the nations? but, Who discerned the divine will for Christians in this time of the world’s end and offered themselves to do it? Who have undertaken God’s foreordained work for this day of judgment of the nations? Who have answered the call to the work and have done it down till this year 1958? Whom has God actually used as his prophet?14 By the historical facts of the case Christendom is beaten back in defeat. Jehovah’s witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them. All the preaching and all the Bible educational work that they have done till now in 175 countries and islands of the sea they confess has been, not by help of a military army, nor by human power, but by God’s spirit, his invisible active force. (Zech. 4:6, AV) It has been because Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his words in their mouths. It has evidently been because he commissioned them to be over the nations and over the kingdoms. Happy are all those who have seen what the work of Jehovah God for now is and who have volunteered to do it. (w59 1/15 pp. 40-41 pars. 13-14)
22 As Jehovah revealed his truths by means of the first-century Christian congregation so he does today by means of the present-day Christian congregation. Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying on an intensified and unparalleled scale. All this activity is not an accident. Jehovah is the one behind all of it. The abundance of spiritual food and the amazing details of Jehovah’s purposes that have been revealed to Jehovah’s anointed witnesses are clear evidence that they are the ones mentioned by Jesus when he foretold a “faithful and discreet slave” class that would be used to dispense God’s progressive revelations in these last days. Of this class Jesus said: “Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.”-Matt. 24:47. (w64 6/15 p. 365 par. 22)
Stirring up increasing interest in them, Jehovah caused to be preached from 1918 onward the startling public message "Millions Now Living Will Never Die," and in 1923 he provided the interpretation of "the parable of the sheep and the goats" (Watchtower, Nov. 15, 1955, p. 698 § 36)
(The last quote is especially unfortunate when one remembers that Rutherford had admitted "making an ass of [himself]" with the false prophecy regarding 1925. ["Regarding his misguided statements as to what we could expect in 1925, he once confessed to us at Bethel, 'I made an ass of myself.'" (Watchtower, 01. October, 1984, p. 24) ] )
Bored sigh.
JWs do not consider themselves literal prophets. They do not identify any post-Biblical human as a prophet. In the first century, individual Christians were literal prophets.
JWs consider themselves a collective "prophet", but a prophet which EXPLICITLY is not inspired and does not have miraculous foreknowledge. As a whole, the first century congregation was not inspired (although individuals were).
JWs consider their "prophesying" to be the work of teaching the Bible and not the sharing of secret messages. No one else is performing a fraction of the evangelism that JWs perform, so they have a good argument for feeling unique. The first century Christian congregation performed evangelism, and also was a collective "prophet" which collectively performed "prophesying" by teaching from the Bible.
The Bible indicates that a "true prophet" need not be perfect; a false statement does not toggle some switch from "true prophet" to "false prophet".
This line of anti-JW argument is a dead-end, in my opinion. It is weak.
JW theology as a whole or in specifics is a separate argument.
"JWs do not consider themselves literal prophets. "
turn to page 133 in the reasoning book near the bottom of the page it states:
"If any individual or organizations claim to represent God but decline to use Gods personal name, and make it a practice to express their own opinion on matters, are they measuring up to this important qualification of a true prophet ? "
JW's use Gods personal name and they claim not to use their own personal opinion but adhere strickly to the Bible. They are most definitly describing themselves as literal prophets.
"JWs consider themselves a collective "prophet", but a prophet which EXPLICITLY is not inspired and does not have miraculous fore knowledge."
On page 60 in the reasoning book under the heading of Evidences of inspiration, it states " It is filled with prophecies reflecting detailed knowledge of the future_--- something impossible for humans"
on page 97 in the reasoning book it gives detailed information and states :" Before the last members of the generation that was alive in 1914 will have passed off the scene, all the things foretold will occur, including the great tribulation in which the present wicked world will end."
That my friend is a detailed prophecy that EVIDENTLY ain't gonna come true cause they changed it over the summer. They are false prophets.
And another thing,
we know that the Holy Spirit directed imperfect men, how do we know this? because their words still hold true today.
let me tell you a thing or two about the Holy Spirit, This is the force that created the stars in the heavens and the earth
on which you stand. It is the force that parted the red sea, filled a room and cause people to speak in different languages
and impregnated a virgin. Trust, this organization is not touched or guided by Holy spirit. It's been over 100 years and they
ain't got a damn thing right yet
JWs do not consider themselves literal prophets.
I do consider the Governing Body/Writing Department to be literal liars.
Elder-Patrol - I have a suggestion. Lets for a moment forget the fact that we are following a thread that asked about jw's and whether or not they claimed status of prophecy. But since I started the thread lets assume it was started to examine one more avenue to show that they are full of shite. With that in mind read the comments of bennyk. If in doing so you cannot see and/or agree that they have made the claim that god spoon feeds them information which they then pass on as his earthly representative, for the edification of mankind and through that edification provides them the opportunity to grasp onto salvation then I don't see the point in further discussion. You should leave this thread for the rest of us who can see clearly that they are full of shite.
Take this with you Elder-patrol it's on the house
Elder Patrol, are you an exJW? Or just a person that has talked to JWs before? Or a current JW?
I'm sorry for all the people going against you right now (including me).
What is your story?
