Yes, I believe in the devil. I believe in God. I believe in angels. I believe in Christ. No reason for me not to believe in Satan as well.
Tammy
Does anyone here still believe in the Devil?
by cantleave 98 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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sabastious
It's almost like some people don't like to be accountable for their own actions and use this devil character as a convenient explanation for all the bad in the world.
You know, it does ALMOST feel that way
-Sab
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sooner7nc
here's the tasty bastard
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ProdigalSon
Obviously there aren't many Eckardt Tolle fans here...
There are only two emotions that come into human consciousness.... love and fear. Every other human emotion is a product of one of those. God is love, and the devil is fear. Demons THRIVE on it. That is their food. It was unforgettably portrayed in a scene from the movie "Virtuosity", with Denzel Washington and Russell Crowe as "Sid", a virtual monster who comes alive to hold an entire disco full of people at gunpoint and conduct them in a symphony of screams....Hollywood at its finest!
~PS
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notverylikely
Read again.
Why? The answer won't magically appear. If sin was not taken into account before the law, how were the people before the law guilty of sin? They were dosobeying who? God wasn't talking to them, there were no rules to disobey.
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diamondiiz
Does anyone here still believe in the Devil?
I put satan on the same level as god, it cannot be proven so sure there is a possibility of either existing but there is a possibility of there being a toothfarry on another planet too but at present I don't think about what might be out there. Believing in something that doesn't appear to be real is a waste of my time at this point in my life and I suppose some people may be in different place in live where believing in something is important and they choose to believe in whatever they believe in.
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Black Sheep
There is just as much evidence for global floods and the Rainbow Serpent as there is for Satan, and I find them just as believable.
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braveheart
All I know is...I am a sinner, in need of a savior.
I look around and believe in a Creator.
He gave us His Word, and If we Trust in Him ...we will not be put to shame.
I do believe in the Devil...and he has a following of Demons...they want to mess up God's creation any way they can.
I think the Dark side uses deception ie:....WTBTS is a great example.
I often wonder if demon possession is real in this day and age....if it is real... I wonder if Satan assigns demons to direct the Governing Body....to help them control the minds of the people.
Freedom and independant thinking...how refreshing... to be able to have disscussion like this.
Peace and strength to all of you. BH
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THE GLADIATOR
braveheart
All I know is...I am a sinner, in need of a savior.
What ya doing that's so gross?
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Chalam
notverylikely I think these ESV Study Notes should explain the whole shebang, sin, Adam, the Law, Christ and such. Hope it helps :) Stephen
Rom. 5:13 Sin was in the world before the Mosaic law was instituted, but it was not technically reckoned as sin before the time of the law. Paul does not mean that people were guiltless without the law, for he has already said in 2:12 that those without the written law are still judged by God (e.g., those who perished in the flood [Genesis 6–9] and those who were judged at the tower of Babel [Gen. 11:1–9]). Since people still died, this shows that they were guilty—as a consequence of Adam's sin but possibly also as a consequence of having transgressed the universal moral law in their consciences before the written Mosaic law was given.
Rom. 5:14 Those who did not live under the law were still judged for their sin, since death held sway over them. Still, their sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, since Adam violated a commandment specifically revealed to him by God. Adam is a type (model, pattern; Gk. typos) of Christ, for both Adam and Christ are covenantal heads of the human race, so that all people are either “in Adam” or “in Christ” (cf. 1 Cor. 15:22). All are in Adam by physical birth, while only those with the new birth are in Christ.
Rom. 5:15 Paul contrasts the consequences of the work of Adam and of Christ five times in the next five verses, showing their decisive roles as covenantal heads of the people they represent. Paul clearly teaches “original sin,” the fact that all people inherit a sinful nature because of Adam's sin. Paul probably is also teaching that all people are in fact guilty before God because of Adam's sin.Many (i.e., all human beings excluding Christ) diedthrough Adam's one sin. Death begins with spiritual separation from God and culminates in physical death. By contrast Paul emphasizes the lavishness of Christ's grace bestowed on the many that belong to him.
Rom. 5:16 Again the astonishing depth of God's grace in Christ is featured. The one trespass of Adam resulted in the condemnation of all, but Christ overcame the flood of sin that overwhelmed the world, so that all who belong to him enjoyjustification.
Rom. 5:17 Death ruled the human race by virtue of the one sin of Adam, whereas Christians now stand as rulers because of the work of Christ.
Rom. 5:18 The one trespass of Adam, as the covenantal head of the human race, brought condemnation and guilt to all people. In a similar way, Christ's one act of righteousness (either his death as such or his whole life of perfect obedience, including his death) grants righteousness and life to all who belong to him. for all men. Some interpreters have advocated universalism (the view that all will be saved) based on these verses. But Paul makes it plain in this context that only those who “receive” (v. 17) God's gift belong to Christ (see also 1:16–5:11, which indicates that only those who have faith will be justified). The wording “as … so” shows that Paul's focus is not on the number in each group but on the method of either sin or righteousness being passed from the representative leader to the whole group: the first “all men” refers to all who are in Adam (every human being), while the second “all men” refers to all believers, to all who are “in Christ.” On the translation “men,” see note on5:12.
Rom. 5:19 Because of Adam's disobedience, all people were made (Gk. kathistemi, “cause[d] to be”) sinners. Thus, when Adam as mankind's representative sinned, God regarded the whole human race as guilty sinners, thereby imputing Adam's guilt to everyone. In other words, God regarded Adam's guilt as belonging to the whole human race, while also declaring that Adam's guilt does in fact belong to all. All are therefore sinners, and are born with a sinful nature that is set in the mold of Adam's transgression.
Rom. 5:20 The typical Jewish view in Paul's day was that God gave the law to counteract the sinful human impulse. In Judaism there was the proverb, “The more Torah the more life” (Mishnah, Aboth 2.7). But Paul points out that the law came in to increase the trespass, probably in the sense that once people had written laws from God, they committed not just “sins” against God's law in their conscience, but, even more seriously, willful “trespasses” (Gk. paraptoma), like Adam's first “trespass” against a clear spoken command directly from God (cf. note on Rom. 4:15). Hence, the surpassing excellence of Christ's salvation is shown in that grace abounded even more than these increasing sins.
Rom. 6:1 Paul is likely responding to a question posed regularly by his Jewish opponents. They did not raise this question so that they would have an excuse to sin, though in every age some have wrongly interpreted and applied Paul's gospel of grace to rationalize sin. Instead, Paul's opponents argued that his gospel must be mistaken since, in their view, it led people to continue in sin. Paul will now show why their interpretation of his gospel is mistaken.
Rom. 6:1–23 The Triumph of Grace over the Power of Sin. The law does not and cannot conquer sin, but the grace given to followers of Christ triumphs over sin and death.
Rom. 6:2 Paul's gospel does not lead to more sin, since those who belong to Christ have died to sin(as explained in the following verses).
Rom. 6:3 Christians died to sin when they werebaptized into Christ. Paul is not arguing that baptism magically destroys the power of sin. Baptism is an outward, physical symbol of the inward, spiritual conversion of Christians.
Rom. 6:4 In the early church, baptism was probably by immersion, at least as a general rule, though Christians dispute whether such a practice must always be followed literally today. Therefore, baptism pictures a person being buried with Christ (submersion under water) and being raised to new life with Christ (emergence from water). This symbolizes the person's union with, and incorporation into, Christ by the action of the Holy Spirit. Hence, they now have the power to live innewness of life.
Rom. 6:6 The power of sin has been broken in those who believe, for their old self (lit., “old man,” meaning who they were in Adam) was crucified and put to death with Christ. They were born into the world as sinners, with the result that their bodies were ruled by sin. Body of sin refers to the rule of sin, but without excluding the involvement of the personal self that lives through the body. Sin's rule, however, was broken when Christians died with Christ, and therefore they are no longer enslaved to sin. Paul does not argue that Christians do not sin at all (a view called sinless perfection); instead, the tyranny, domination, and rule of sin have been defeated for them. This means that the normal pattern of life for Christians should be progressive growth in sanctification, resulting in ever greater maturity and conformity to God's moral law in thought and action.
Rom. 6:7 One who has died means one who has died with Christ.
Rom. 6:10 died to sin. Jesus died because he took sin upon himself, but his resurrection demonstrates that he has defeated both sin and death.
Rom. 6:11 Dead to sin means dead to the pervasive love for and ruling power of sin. Christians must realize that the mastery of sin has been broken in their lives (see note on v. 6).
Rom. 6:12–13 The tension surfaces here between what God has already accomplished and the responsibility of his people to obey. They are still tempted by desires to sin and must not let those desires gain control. Each day they must give themselves afresh to God.
Rom. 6:14 sin will have no dominion over you. This is not a command but a promise that sin will not triumph in the lives of Christians. Because they live in the new era of fulfillment, they are no longer under the old era of redemptive history; that is, they are no longer under law, where the Mosaic law and sin ruled over God's people. By contrast, under grace means living under the new covenant in Christ, in an era characterized by grace (cf. 3:24; 4:16; 5:2, 15–21).
Rom. 6:15 Paul emphatically rejects the idea that freedom from the old covenant era of being under law implies freedom to sin.
Rom. 6:15–23 The question posed in v. 1 is now explored from another angle, that is, shall a Christian continue to sin because sin's power over him is broken (v. 11) and thus there is little danger in sinning?
Rom. 6:16 Moral decisions still matter for Christians. Giving in to sin results in people increasingly becoming obedient slaves to sin. (For a brief description of ancient slavery, see note on 1 Cor. 7:21.) This kind of activity eventually leads to death, not implying that genuine believers can actually lose their salvation but that sinning leads them in that direction, away from full enjoyment of life with Christ (cf. note on Gal. 5:4). Those who give themselves utterly to sin will die (face eternal punishment).
Rom. 6:17–18 True Christians, however, will never live as slaves to sin, for God has transformed their hearts at conversion, so that they will now grow in their love of righteousness and in living according to God's Word.
Rom. 6:19 Although Paul acknowledges that the illustration from slavery is imperfect, it nonetheless stresses the importance of giving oneself wholly to God rather than to sin.
Rom. 6:20–21 When the readers were unbelievers, they were totally captivated by sin, and the end result of such sin is death (physical and spiritual death are probably both in view here). Sin always brings destructive results in people's lives.
Rom. 6:22 Christians have a new status and a new destiny.
Rom. 6:23 Those who give themselves to sin will die both physically and eternally, whereas Christians are assured of eternal life. Wagesimplies that the punishment for sin is what one has earned and what one deserves. Free gift is the opposite of something one deserves, which fits Paul's earlier emphasis on justification by grace alone (God's unmerited favor; see note on 4:16), through faith alone (trusting in Christ for justification; see 1:17; 3:21–4:25).
Rom. 7:1–3 As in this entire chapter, law refers to the Mosaic law given at Mount Sinai. Those who know the law includes both Jews and Gentiles who are familiar with the OT. Verse 1introduces the principle, worked out in the following verses, that the law is in force only while a person is alive. In vv. 2–3, Paul applies the principle to marriage. A married woman who lives with another man is subject to the law regarding adultery only if her husband is still living.
Rom. 7:1–6 The Triumph of Grace over the Power of the Law. The law does not and cannot bring victory over sin and death since sin is defined and even promoted through the law. But those who have died with Christ are set free from sin and the law.
Rom. 7:4 The principle and illustration from vv. 1–3 are applied to the readers in vv. 4–6. Whereas the husband dies in the illustration of vv. 2–3, herebelievers die to the law through the death ofChrist; the analogy does not match perfectly, but the application is clear.
Rom. 7:5 Flesh here stands for the old “Adam”—the unregenerate former life of those who now believe. The law, contrary to the view of contemporary Judaism (cf. note on 5:20), did not bring life. Instead it stimulated sin and led to death. Although sin leads to death (cf. 6:23), in Christ there is life (John 14:6; 1 John 5:12; cf. Prov. 1:19).
Rom. 7:6 But now represents the new era of redemptive history. Christians are free from the Mosaic law and now enjoy new life in the Spirit.
Rom. 7:7 The law defines sin and also provokes sin. Confronted by the law, sin takes on the character of rebellion, so that people enjoy transgressing commands in order to demonstrate their independence. This principle is illustrated from the tenth commandment, which prohibits coveting (Ex. 20:17).
Rom. 7:7–25 The Law and Sin. The claim that the Mosaic law produced sin and death raises the question, Is the law itself sinful? In this section Paul explains that the law itself is good and that the fault lies with sin. Interpreters differ as to whether the “I” in these verses is describing (1) unregenerate people who try to keep the law, or (2) believers who, despite being regenerated, find themselves still beset by sinful desires. The second view is more widely held (cf. note on 7:13–25).
Rom. 7:8 The prohibition against coveting exacerbated the desire for what was forbidden. Sin lies dead means that sin was latent rather than nonexistent.
Rom. 7:9 If the verse relates to Paul, he is speaking of his subjective experience. If it relates to Adam, it refers to his relationship with God before he sinned. The prohibition against coveting stimulated the desire to sin, and sin in turn led to death.
Rom. 7:10–11 God's commands promise eternallife if one keeps them; and yet they lead to death, since everyone violates what God ordains. This happens when sin deceives a person and uses the law as its instrument.
Rom. 7:12 In light of vv. 7–11, Paul affirms the holiness of the law and the goodness of God's commands.
Rom. 7:13–25 If the law is not sin, is it the case that the good law is responsible for death? Paul argues that the fault lies with sin, not with the law. Through the law, sin is revealed in all its hideousness, and the law is vindicated as good. The section can be subdivided into vv. 14–17, 18–20, and 21–25. A long-standing debate centers on whether Paul is describing believers or unbelievers. Although good arguments are given by both sides, the most widely held view—beginning especially with Augustine and reaffirmed in the Reformation—is that Paul's primary reference is to believers. In support of this position: (1) the shift to the present tense; (2) unbelievers do not desire so intensely to keep God's law (v. 21); (3) the distinction between the “I” and the “flesh” (v. 18); (4) the delight in God's law (v. 22); (5) deliverance from the sinful body is future (v. 24; 8:10, 11, 23); (6) the tension between good and evil in the concluding statement in 7:25; and (7) the fact that Christians are already righteous in Christ but are not yet perfected until the day of redemption. A second position, not as widely held but supported by a number of evangelical scholars, is that Paul is referring to unbelievers. In support of this position: (1) the structure of the passage (vv. 7–25 matches the life of the unregenerate previewed in v. 5, whereas 8:1–17 fits with the life of believers identified in 7:6); (2) the Holy Spirit is not mentioned in vv. 13–25 but is referred to 19 times in ch. 8; (3) to say that Christians are “sold under sin” (7:14) and “captive to the law of sin” (v. 23) stands in tension with chs. 6 and 8, which trumpet the freedom of believers from slavery to sin; (4) the suggestion that the present tense does not denote present time but the spiritual state of Paul when unconverted; (5) the desire to keep God's law reflects the mind-set of the pious Jew who wanted to live a moral life (as the verses emphasize, such people do not and cannot keep the law); and (6) the section's opening verse (v. 13) explains how the law brought death to Paul as an unbeliever. Advocates of both positions agree that (1) Christians still struggle with sin through their whole lives (see Gal. 5:17; 1 John 1:8–9); and (2) Christians can and should grow in sanctification throughout their lives by the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling within them (Rom. 8:2, 4, 9, 13–14). Those who hold to the first position usually see this passage as describing both Paul's own experience and the experience of Christians generally. Although Christians are free from the condemnation of the law, sin nonetheless continues to dwell within, and all genuine Christians (along with Paul) should be profoundly aware of how far they fall short of God's absolute standard of righteousness. Thus Paul cries out, “Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?” (7:24). The answer follows immediately: the one who has delivered Christians once for all (see 4:2–25; 5:2, 9) and the one who will deliver them day by day is “Jesus Christ our Lord!” (7:25). As in many other places in Paul's letters, this reflects his emphasis on both the “already” aspect of salvation (that believers have been saved) and the “not yet” aspect (that believers will be saved ultimately and for all eternity at the return of Christ), and that they live in the tension between the already and the not yet. In the section that immediately follows (8:1–11), Paul shows that the means by which Christians are delivered daily from the indwelling power of sin is: (1) by walking “not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit” (8:4); (2) by not “set[ting] their minds on the things of the flesh, but … on the things of the Spirit” (8:5); and (3) by the indwelling presence of “the Spirit of God [who] dwells in you” (8:9, 11).
Rom. 7:16 Paul's reference to the goodness of the law reflects the main point of these verses.
Rom. 7:17 Paul is not absolving himself of personal responsibility but emphasizing the power of sin.
Rom. 7:21–23 The meaning of the word “law” in these verses is the subject of debate. Some think that every use of the word refers to the Mosaic law, but most argue that in vv. 21 and 23 the term means “principle.” All agree that the Mosaic law is in view in v. 22. The Greek word nomos can take either meaning.
Rom. 7:24–25 Who will deliver me? The living presence of Jesus Christ is the answer to the problem of sin in one's life.
Rom. 8:1 Therefore indicates that Paul is stating an important summary and conclusion related to his preceding argument. The “therefore” is based first on the exclamation of victory that comes “through Jesus Christ our Lord” (7:23–25), which in turn is linked back to 7:6, where the idea of the “new life of the Spirit” is first mentioned. But more broadly Paul seems to be recalling his whole argument about salvation in Christ from 3:21–5:21. The now in 8:1 matches the “now” in 7:6, showing that the new era of redemptive history has “now” been inaugurated by Christ Jesus for those who are “now” in right standing before God because they are united with Christ. But the summary relates further to the whole argument presented in chs. 3, 4, and 5. No condemnationechoes the conclusion stated in 5:1 (“Therefore … we have peace with God”) and underscores the stunning implications of the gospel first introduced in 1:16–17. As Paul immediately goes on to explain, there is “no condemnation” for the Christian because God has condemned sin in the flesh by sending his own Son (8:3) to pay the penalty for sin through his death on the cross. The following verses then show that indwelling sin is overcome through the power of the indwelling Spirit, with ten references to the Spirit in vv. 4–11.
Rom. 8:1–17 Life in the Spirit. Paul celebrates the new life of the Spirit that Christians enjoy as a result of Christ's saving work.
Rom. 8:2 The evidence that believers are in Christ is that the power of sin has been broken in their lives by the work of the Holy Spirit. Law in both instances means principle.
Rom. 8:3 The law (in this instance, the Mosaic law) could not solve humanity's problem because sin employs the law for its own purposes, as ch. 7explained. God sent his Son as a sacrifice for sin(an idiomatic phrase designating a sin offering) and paid the full penalty for sin in his sacrifice (condemned sin). In the flesh refers to Christ's body, and in the likeness of sinful flesh means that Jesus became fully human, even though he was sinless.
Rom. 8:4 righteous requirement of the law … fulfilled. This could mean the requirement is fulfilled in the new life that Christians live on the basis of Christ's work, or it may refer to the full penalty of the law being met at the cross.
Rom. 8:6 To set the mind on the flesh means to think continually about and constantly desire the things characteristic of fallen, sinful human nature, that is, to think just the way the unbelieving world thinks, emphasizing what it thinks important, pursuing what it pursues, in disregard of God's will.
Rom. 8:7 Those who are in the flesh behave as sons and daughters of sinful Adam and are hostile to God. They do not keep God's law, and indeed they are unable to keep it because they are slaves to sin (6:6, 17, 19–20).
Rom. 8:8 Because unbelievers (those who are in the flesh) are in bondage to sin and unable to do what God commands, they fail to please God.
Rom. 8:9 By definition, Christians are not in the flesh, for all who believe in Christ are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Paul alternates between the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ here, showing that Christ and God share the same status.