Does anyone here still believe in the Devil? (page 5)

nugget

If you start from the premise that the Bible was written by men to explain their own perspectives and justify extreme action then the devil is an extremely effective device. He is used as a means of control to keep people following the desired pattern of behaviour. He does not need to exist it is only necessary to have the idea in place for it to be useful.

Even if we take the Bible as inspired doctrine then we still need empirical evidence. The Bible says there is a demon influencing world events. Psychology shows the human capacity for evil without the need for external influence. Are we just conveniently making the Devil an excuse for our own short comings?

For a refreshing perspective on the devil may I suggest listening to Old Harry's Game on BBC Radio 4 it is very funny. Especially the pit of popes.

brotherdan

God doesn't kill people. People let themselves be killed. In the flood, God gave them a way out. But they chose not to take it. It's like people now. He's given them an extremely EASY way out. Faith in Jesus Christ. But they are too "smart" and trust in their own sinful wisdom. They'll find out how far their intelligence goes to save them eventually...

brotherdan

People ARE responsible for their own actions. The Devil doesn't force anyone to do anything. He can't. He can tempt. That is why he is called the tempter.

The problem with the statement

"If you start from the premise that the Bible was written by men to explain their own perspectives and justify extreme action "

is that the Bible does not give that allowance. It CLAIMS to be from God. So either it is or it isn't. If it isn't you can't take ANY of the Bible. I've gone back and forth with this, but have come to the conclusion that it IS a take it or leave it book.

If it IS from God, then the Devil is a real person.

brotherdan

NVL, it sounds like you asked the questions and then decided you didn't want or like the answers.

nugget

As humans we need to grow up and take responsibility for what we do. Rather than limiting what we can achieve by stressing our imperfection and dependence perhaps we need to grasp our duty to make an effort to improve life for others. This is not about arrogance but how we show love and compassion for fellow man that matters.

If we wait for God to take action we become immune to the horror of what is happening to people around us. God will put it right so we don't need to act.

Richard Dawkins said that without religion good people would do good things and bad people would do bad things. It takes religion to make good people do bad things. This is slightly simplistic but makes the point.

For JWs Satan is the imaginary person who does bad things so we don't have to accept that we have the capacity for badness on our own. In reality the Devil is pretty much redundant in the world.

The whole flood and salvation thing is a whole new topic.

Chalam

cantleave I am genuinely interested if ANY of their beliefs are shared with mainstream christianity.

Yes, I believe in Satan. He is an arse.

The thing is with the WT, they look similar to Christianity but look under the surface and they are completely different.

Take Jesus for example. The WT gospel sounds the same, God created man, man sinned, Jesus came and died for man's sins etc.

However, look more closely and find a completely different Jesus, a created angel, not the Creator.

Also, look more closely and you find out Jesus is not your Mediator according to the WT but they are. Also, He only died for the 144, 000. You have to pay for your own sins by your own death and then make it through the Millennium. Strange how you can't find this stuff in your bible, only in the WT publications.

Back to Satan, yes he exists and the script looks similar but the Satan the WT paint is a mega powerful super being who is gonna mess up your life unless you chant the "Jehovah" mantra and carry your lucky talisman NWT.

Let me say it again, Satan is an arse and I enjoy spoiling his day as much as possible.

Blessings,

Stephen, a child of the Most High and brother of Jesus.

notverylikely

You're bootstrapping, brotherdan. The bible claims it is from god, so it is. I know it's right because it's from god. I know it's from god because it's right.

notverylikely

NVL, it sounds like you asked the questions and then decided you didn't want or like the answers.

I asked them. You put the blame on me for some strange reason even though you said you could tell what was symbolic and what wasn't. I am not sure why you decided to somehow suggest that I was at fault, that seems like a strange attack upon me for asking a question, but regardless, can YOU answer them?

brotherdan

I wasn't trying to attack you for anything. Sorry if it came across that way. You know me...i'm still learning how to NOT do that.

There is just very specific answers to all of your questions. I'm leaving in 15 mins, but I'm sure Chalam (Stephen) would be happy to answer all of them.

I'm not boot strapping with the bible. I've combined what I learn in the bible with prayer. I've seen the changes in my life since I've followed only IT and not the WT. I've felt the Holy Spirit in a way that I never before felt. I DO feel sorry for those that have not had that sort of experience. But this experience is mine and it proves it to me.

Twitch

No, but evil resides in the hearts of some,..

Does anyone here still believe in the Devil?

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