No Link Found Between Vaccine Mercury and Autism

by leavingwt 132 Replies latest social current

  • bohm
    bohm

    ARGB:

    1) You did not address that Dr. Wakefield selected the 12 children in a non-random way and all the other problems sorrounding his methology documented in Mrs. Jones link. Nor did you adress the fact he ONLY worked with 12 children, save a lame-ass reference to the apostles.

    2) The fact that Gary Null hold only a mail-order degree which is just above the standards of a degree-mill is not the issue. The issue is that Gary Null is NOT a person who has any capacity to talk about medical science, yet he was linked as a seemingly intelligent source in one of the articles you referenced, and a reader might get the impression he had the slightest clue about what he was talking about. The fact is he is a HIV/AIDS denialist ad has done absolutely zero field work on autism or anything related. That is the main problem with your case: You dont got any evidence, and there is a ton of evidence against your point.

    3,4) The fact mercury is highly toxic in large doses is completely beside the point because pretty much everything is highly toxic in large doses and found in our food and bodies in low doses. What need to be done is to make a study which examine if the specific dosage is dangerous. You completely fail to address if you even think this is needed because you are so eager to make blanket, obvious truisms like: "I still think mercury can cause braindamage". DUH. Radioactivity can cause instant death, but that does not mean we should not use X-rays, right?

    My points were these and i think they are very valid: If mercury is the cause, a) Why is autism inherited to a large degree? b) In multiple countries, Denmark, Sweeden, US, etc. etc., Mercury compounds was removed from the vaccine stack from 20-10 years ago. I provided link to this. Yet the charts with instances of autism show NO sign of dropping because this happened, why?

    You only address them in a hand-weaving "I dont want to commit to anything"-fashion. It is not clear to me if you accept autism is inherited or if your explanation for b) is that "they properly put something else and more evil in!" what possible way your hypothesis could be falsified, save removing all vaccines for a decade (killing thousands of children in the process) and see what happened with the autism level.

    5) you posted a research paper. Leolai posted links which tore it to pieces. You posted link to an article about a court case. this still leave you with zero research or data to back your claims up.

    This is really where you fail. You dont have any data or any research to back up your case. You dont even have a hypothesis that can be tested and falsified. But this does not really seem to bother you, because you will just dismiss any counter-evidence in a hand-waving non-committing fashion as propaganda from the agents of evil.

    The middle ages called. It want its methology back.

  • besty
    besty
    The middle ages called. It want its methology back.

    read good books choice of username and avatar is living proof Americans do get irony.

  • bohm
    bohm

    Besty: .

    Dont you just love how any scientific work no matter how convincing it is can be dismissed these days by saying the magic words: "this remind me of global warming"?

  • besty
    besty

    hey boehm bhom boemhe :-)

    This caught my eye from BTS early in the thread:

    When you anti-vaccine people can produce solid, peer-reviewed, scientific evidence that shows vaccines cause autism.... Then you will have my ear, then you will convince me. Right now, all of the evidence goes the other way. Until you do produce the scientific evidence, you go into the looney bin, along with the Truthers, Chemtrailers, and Fluoridated Water-ers. BTS

    Ask BTS if he accepts the overwhelming scientific evidence for AGW and he gets all coy - apparently he is still 'not sure' - this will come to be known as the Fiorina Fudge.

    When you anti-AGW people can produce solid, peer-reviewed, scientific evidence that shows humans do not cause GW.... Then you will have my ear, then you will convince me. Right now, all of the evidence goes the other way. Until you do produce the scientific evidence, you go into the looney bin, along with the Truthers, Chemtrailers, and Fluoridated Water-ers. BTS???

    Maybe the thread should be called "No Link Found Between Science and Ideologues (Unless it suits them)"

    Great talking points and valuable input from people with personal experience - loved the thread.

  • read good books
    read good books

    If these are cut and paste wars I am your Huckleberry. Not not really, I am trying to make a point that Doctors are among big critics of vaccines. Here are some statements from M.D.'s since Boeeeeeehm, I spell it anyway I want it's my post, doesn't accept the fact that anyone that isn't an M.D. has a right to an opinion. Not really Bohm, I just used your tactic Boahm of putting words in my mouth. Hello Besty, after my avatar again. I bet you are enjoying this post since my old fellow anti GW posters are even against me here, it's mainly just me defending the opposition to this thread topic. By the way did you see how much money the Global Warming companies have made so far, holy sh*t, I have to go back and find that number for you if I can fit it on the thread. Bohme says I can't pull out medical research research, it is hard to find anything after Wakefield got steam rolled by the vaccine/pharmaceutical/medical establishment. Think about it who is gonna pay for it, sure as hell not the medical establishment. Still those court cases in vaccine court keep deciding against the vaccines while the establishment calls you a nut if you think there is anything wrong with them, what a dilemma for a thinking person. Here are some quotes for you guys to ponder on while your thowing stones at my avatar: Nobody needs to be confused but EVERYBODY better be darn well frightened about taking ANY vaccine, under ANY circumstance, for ANY reason, at ANY time in their life."--Dr Duffy DC

    "I have been on the staff of the New Jersey State Department of Health, and was in complete charge of the Monmouth County Cerebral Palsy Treatment Center. For the past three years I have been director of the Homestead Rehabilitation Institute (and still am as of this writing). My experiences have enabled me to observe from within the workings of official medicine. At first I could not believe what I saw...Were the truth concerning medical treatment and so-called prevention ever to leak out, the stench of it would obliterate the public confidence in the medical profession and put an end to the fantastic drug profits."---Dr. Milton Fried, D.C., 1956 (Poisoned Needle by McBean p192)

    " What, then, is the value of vaccination? We firmly believe that it has no value at all. Its supposed value has been deduced from incorrect reasoning on the part of its advocates. Were small-pox as prevalent and as fatal now as in the eighteenth century, it might even be justifiable to have recourse to inoculation—either by variolous or vaccine matter. History, however, has demonstrated that towards the close of the last century, when Jenner introduced his system, small-pox had gradually died out, as we shall presently show. Even in Jenner's day small-pox had lost its virulence. "--- Dr. Charles T. Pearce, M.D. [1868 Book : Essay on Vaccination ]

    " It is difficult to conceive what will be the excuse made for a century of co w poxing; but it cannot be doubted that the practice will appear in as absurd a light to the common sense of the twentieth century as blood-letting now does to us. Vaccination differs, however, from all previous errors of the faculty, in being maintained as the law of the land on the warrant of medical authority. That is the reason why the blow to professional credit can hardly help being severe, and why the efforts to ward it off have been, and will continue to be so ingenious. " [ 1889 ] Jenner and V accination A S trange C hapter of M edical H istory by Charles Creighton M.D.

    "If you want the truth on vaccination you must go to those who are not making anything out of it. If doctors shot at the moon every time it was full as a preventive of measles and got a shilling for it, they would bring statistics to prove it was a most efficient practice, and that the population would be decimated if it were stopped."---Dr Allinson

    "The anthrax vaccine was approved without every doing a controlled clinical study. There is no long term safety data on the anthrax vaccine. The government admitted this in congressional hearings. It is a distortion of the truth to say there is substantial safety data."--Bart Classen

    "The vaccinations are not working, and they are dangerous.. We should be working with nature."--Lendon Smith MD

    "I once believed in Jenner; I once believed in Pasteur. I believed in vaccination. I believed in vivisection. But I changed my views as the result of hard thinking."--Dr Hadwen

    " I have no faith in vaccination; nay, I look upon it with the greatest possible disgust, and firmly believe that it is often the medium of conveying many filthy and loathsome diseases from one child to another, and no protection whatever against small pox. Indeed, I consider we are now living in the JENNERIAN epoch for the slaughter of innocents, and the unthinking portion of the adult population ."--- W. J. COLLINS, M.D., B.S., B.Sc. (Lond.) M.R.C.S (Letter to Vaccination Inquirer)

    The evidence (vaccines cause autism) is now overwhelming, despite the misinformation from theCenters for Disease Control and Prevention, the American Academy ofPediatrics and the Institute of Medicine. The (Pretending to) Combat Autism Act By Bernard Rimland

    I am no longer "trying to dig up evidence to prove" vaccines cause autism. There is already abundant evidence,...... This debate is not scientific but is political. --- [July 9, 2006 Blog/letter] Discovering the causes, treatment of autism ---- David Ayoub, MD

    "Not one case receiving homeopathic care died, while the "old school" doctors lost twenty percent of their (smallpox) cases.....I gave about three hundred internal vaccinations, five to adults acting as practical nurses; to the man who installed the telephone and lights in the pest-house; to mothers who slept with their children while they had smallpox in its severest form. All of these people, exposed daily, were immune."--W. L. Bonnell, MD

    During the last ten years, I have treated and cured all kinds of serious acute diseases without resorting to allopathic drugs. In a very extensive practice, I have not in all these years lost a single case of appendicitis (and not one of them was operated upon), of typhoid fever, diphtheria, smallpox, scarlet fever, etc., and only one case of cerebro-spinal meningitis and of lobar pneumonia. These facts may be verified from the records of the Health Department of the City of Chicago. ----- Chapter 16: The Diphtheria Antitoxin ( Nature Cure: Philosophy & Practice Based on the Unity of Disease & Cure by Henry Lindlahr, M.D. )

    "Based on what I now know, I would not give my children the combined MMR vaccine. I would consider either using the vaccines singly (not available in this country but possible in mainland Europe) or not vaccinating at all. It may be safer for healthy children to catch these illnesses rather than run the risk of immunisation."--Dr Richard Halvorsen

    My thirty years experience as a family doctor in the healing arts have convinced me that the greatest threat to life and health in the 21st century, is no longer atomic bombs and nuclear power. The greatest threat to our health today is (by far)the medical community, and one of their most dangerous tools is vaccination - particularly the horrific procedure of injecting foreign protein into newborn infants! My thirty years of experience was preceded by 21 years of military experience during which I faithfully avoided every single vaccination after being subjected to the initial vaccinations given to all new trainees in boot camp. During my 21 years of military life, during which I prepared myself for my final occupation as a family doctor, I cultivated a very different opinion on the subject of vaccines and my final conclusion is that there is no such thing as a safe vaccine -the phrase is oxymoronic. One need not look too diligently to have my assertion confirmed by men much greater than I. If one fails to first consider that the most powerful vested interest in the world is in our own individual belief system and then seek out the source of that system, one does, in the case of modern medicine, completely miss the point.
    Without even mentioning the fact that vaccination defies common sense and the use of simple logic, allow me to state that vaccination is the single greatest threat to human life and health today for three reasons:
    1. Vaccination was born in the superstitions of Egyptian antiquity 2. Vaccines were given new life by the medieval medical quacks and drug peddling entrepeneurs of the renaissance at a time when almost nothing was known of the immune system. 3. Historical fact demonstrates that vaccination has never cured, prevented or ameliorated a single disease. The evidence is now (and has been for over a century)available to demonstrate that the plagues of old were the results of sudden population explosions with diminished food supplies.
    Benjamin Sandler MD, proved beyond the question of a doubt that the polio epidemics proved to be the result of overindulgence in adulterated (high sugar) foods. The plagues of old were due to the lack of animal protein, fresh fruit and vegetables. This resulted in lowered antibody levels with the resultant overgrowth of organisms that thrive in such absences. The rats, mice, fleas and bugs are still with us but the plagues are a thing of the past. What we suffer now is a plague of a different variety, far more dangerous than the plagues of old. Our present plague is the existence of medically driven legislatures and governmental power under the sway of medical "knowitallness". The citizen had better wake up and drive this medical demon out of their governing bodies now while peaceful means to do so are still available. They certainly had better not allow their critical voices to be stilled by the vested interests in their legislatures! -----Dr Daniel H Duffy Sr Family doctor of chiropractic Geneva, Ohio USA

    "Meningitis is not a transmissible disease, we do not "catch" it from one another.My first lesson in vaccine propaganda is when I learned, back in the forties, that the "epidemics" of meningitis amongst military recruits were not epidemics but clusters, and the second thing I learned was that only the freshly vaccinated recruits "caught" meningitis. The mess sergeant didn't, the drill sergeant didn't, only the recruits did. Not even the girls who worked at the base exchanges and service clubs, with whom the recruits played kissy face "caught" meningitis - only the freshly vaccinated recruits "caught" it. ...... In over thirty years of clinical practice I have never seen an infectious hepatitis "caught" by another member of a household and believe me when I say I really looked high and low for one of those. If I found one I would look for a source of the poisoning, not for a germ or a virus"---Daniel H Duffy Sr. DC also

    " AIDS and SARS are ways for epidemiologists (e.g., the CDC, WHO, etc.) to secure their jobs and continued funding for their agencies. No new emerging epidemics, maybe no CDC, no WHO, so we've got an infrastructure that REQUIRES the "discovery" of new, threatening epidemics. And the media pick a new one every year. This year, it's SARS. For the past couple of years, it's been West Nile Virus. Next year it'll be something else. "---- Dr Dan Duffy DC

    "S oldiers DID die following the injections which contained mercurous chloride otherwise known as CALOMEL. There WAS a widespread campaign for mercury containing vaccines. There WAS also an outpouring of propaganda [such as our present day SARS, MONKEYPOX, SMALLPOX hype] to frighten the public, there WERE large numbers of deaths at the time, all blamed on “Spanish Flu”. Of course the Spanish Flu was just as bogus in the early 1900s as Swine Flu was in the 70s when President Ford faked his vaccination and helped set our country up for a REAL epidemic [vaccine induced, iatrogenic, Guillaine Barre syndrome]. Spanish Flu was as bogus as the more recent WEST NILE VIRUS, AIDS, SARS, SMALLPOX and MONKEYPOX is today. They are killing the innocent and the ignorant today, just as they have in the past. The deaths from the great flu epidemic of 1918 were caused by the use of CALOMEL, the major biological poison used to treat “sepsis” as it was called in those days. CALOMEL is mercurous chloride and was used by the medical quacks of that day for “anything that ailed you”. Mercury is a deadly poison. " Dr. Duffy

    "It is now 30 years since I have been confining myself to the treatment of chronic diseases. During those 30 years I have run against so many histories of little children who had never seen a sick day until they were vaccinated and who, in the several years that have followed, have never seen a well day since. I couldn't put my finger on the disease they have. They just weren't strong. Their resistance was gone. They were perfectly well before they were vaccinated. They have never been well since. "---Dr. William Howard Hay

    "My own personal view is that vaccines are unsafe and worthless. I will not allow myself to be vaccinated again. .....The bottom line is that infectious diseases are least likely to affect (and to kill) those who have healthy immune systems. I no longer believe that vaccines have any role to play in the protection of the community or the individual. Vaccines may be profitable but, in my view, they are neither safe nor effective. I prefer to put my trust in building up my immune system."---Dr Vernon Coleman MB

  • DaCheech
    DaCheech

    man, you don't give up!

    doctors are backing up the JW blood doctrine too!

    doctors are backing every infomercial product out there!

    doctors are backing up noni juice!

  • read good books
    read good books
    man, you don't give up!

    Okay I will, this will be my last post, it appears some of the people on this thread want me to stop, others keep goading me on and challenging me to respond to multiple attacks on my view...my sympathies lay with famies like the Jones'es who have a child with autism. I spent years helping a friend with taking care of a relatives child with fetal alchohol syndrome.

    "Thimerosal was taken out of most childhood vaccines at the beginning of the decade. In 2006, studies of two government databases indicated that autism rates went up as thimerosal dosages increased, then began to decline as thimerosal was removed.

    Yet, if you look at this Time magazine article, it says that autism rates have continued to climb since thimerosal was removed from vaccines in 2001. Why the discrepancy?

    It could be due to the fact that in 2002 the U.S. government began recommending flu shots to children under 2 (and now recommends them for kids until they’re 18). Well, most flu shots still contain thimerosal, so many infants are still being exposed to mercury."

    There is also the issue of vaccine timing.

    “Giving too many vaccines over too short a time to infants whose nervous system is not yet fully developed can also trigger autism and its spectrum of disorders,” Dr. Miller says.

    And, according to Dr. Russell Blaylock, multiple vaccines given close together over-stimulate your brain's immune system and, via the mechanism of "bystander injury," destroy brain cells.

    What Else is Fueling the Autism Epidemic?

    Autism now affects about one in 150 U.S. children. A small portion of these cases, perhaps 1 percent, may be due to genetic defects, and the rest are likely caused by exposure to toxic chemicals, viruses or other environmental influences.

    One environmental influence that you may not have heard about was suggested by a November 2007 study in the Journal of the Australasian College of Nutritional & Environmental Medicine . It found that electromagnetic radiation (EMR) from cell phones, cell towers, Wi-Fi devices and other similar wireless technologies may be an accelerating factor in autism.

    After five years of research on children with autism and other membrane sensitivity disorders, the researchers found that EMR negatively affects cell membranes, and allows heavy metal toxins, which are associated with autism, to build up in your body.

    Meanwhile, autism rates have increased concurrently along with the proliferation of cell phones and wireless use.

    EMR, the researchers say, could impact autism by facilitating early onset of symptoms or by trapping heavy metals inside of nerve cells, which could accelerate the onset of symptoms of heavy metal toxicity and hinder therapeutic clearance of the toxins"

  • DaCheech
    DaCheech

    you should be saving your strength, and go after parents who over-medicate their children............ not the ones who look at the benefits that outweighh the risk.

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    I've never had a flu shot neither has Joshua. I didn't have a cell phone when Joshua was in utero. Joshua was born in 2003 so the mercury preservative was not in the vaccinations he received. Other than autism, Joshua is a very healthy, bright little boy who rarely gets colds, has never had the flu, and has no other health issues except maybe a mild allergy to peaches (which he avoids).

    I believe that austism is a real genetic component in my family (on both my mother and father's sides of the family) since I have two 1st cousins (nieces of my father) who's children are on the spectrum (one girl and two boys). And I think my maternal grandmother is also on the spectrum (it's feeling but if you all knew her and her history you might agree).

    I know that Joshua's case means little, he's just one boy, but I truely believe Wakefield and other of his ilk are bonafide quacks into promoting dangerous therapies and ideas such as not vaccinating children for money and fame. Wakefield has been exposed as a fraud but I know nothing I or others who are more educated on this issue say will change the minds of those who want to believe the hoax. It's kinda like trying to talk a diehard jw out of the "truth".

  • cognizant dissident
    cognizant dissident

    Maybe it was the fish? Just sayin'......

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