Adam and Eve and free will

by inbetween 125 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  notverylikely

  Okay, NVL... back from vacation, so I can respond a bit more now :)

  Hey! How was the trip?

  Jesus and God may have been clear, but that doesn't mean that people understood them. Seems like an oxymoron, I know... but Jesus also said turn the other cheek - and how many people do that, or even understand enough to believe that's what he meant

  I always put it this way. I might be clear when I tell my kids something, i might be clear, for example, i might say that I need them to assuage their negative feelings. But, knowing they don't understand that, I sit them down until I am sure they understand what I am saying and it's clear to both me AND them.

  Sacrifices... I think there's a scripture that says God never asked for sacrifices, but I'm going cross-eyed looking for it.

  Matthew 9:13? "Go, then, and learn what this means, ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.”

  But I believe that a lot of what man did regarding worship and holy war was what man 'thought' God wanted, and not so much what God actually wanted.

  Read these. At least you'll get a laugh :)

  http://www.theonion.com/articles/god-refloods-middle-east,132/

  http://www.theonion.com/articles/god-angrily-clarifies-dont-kill-rule,222/

  "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."

  Well Tammy, you are right in that Jesus preached a better message of love and tolerance. To be fair though, Moses permitting things and taking credit for God's work is kinda what got him in hot water :)

  Should he have gone through every single thing... or just enough that we should be able to get the point?

  Well, if there's any room for misinterpretation and getting out the gaps what they already want to hear, people can do it :)
• 

  tec

  NVL - I loved those :) The Onion - awesome.

  Hey! How was the trip?

  Trip was great! My friend was wonderful, and my aunt and uncle - well, they argued and bickered as they usually do, but I laughed at them, as I usually do :)

  I always put it this way. I might be clear when I tell my kids something, i might be clear, for example, i might say that I need them to assuage their negative feelings. But, knowing they don't understand that, I sit them down until I am sure they understand what I am saying and it's clear to both me AND them.

  Since our kids are roughly the same age, I think you and I should have this discussion about making things 'clear and understandable to them' again in a few years. When they're teenagers ;)

  I understand what you're saying, though. I just don't think we can make people understand when they refuse to do so. But... our kids do tend to come back to us with some time and experience (and personal understanding) under their belts. Not all the time. But often - perhaps as long as we've been sincere and truthful with them.

  Matthew 9:13? "Go, then, and learn what this means, ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.”

  That applies as well, but no... there's an OT scripture too. No worries. It'll come to me. Thanks, though.

  Tammy
• 

  Farkel

  For newbies like you:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/6243/1/The-Tree-of-WHAT

  Farkel
• 

  tec

  Read it, thanks, Farkel. (Well, not all of it... it was long) But I never did say if I take the story literally or not. There are obvious metaphors (tree of life/tree of the knowledge of good and evil) and so whether an actual Adam and Eve existed or whether they represent men and women, and the first breath of life representing life in the spirit/knowing God, etc... there are many possibilities.

  But I do believe that to know meant to experience. I believe that once Adam and Eve knew (experienced) good AND evil, they could not un-know (un-experience) this - and their death was a natural consequence.

  However, I did read a few other things that I had not heard before, so I will take some time to reflect upon those as well.

  Tammy
• 

  Farkel

  tec,

  :Well, not all of it... it was long

  Well, you need to get your attention span a little longer, or spend your life being an ignorant twit. You will not learn anything if you just scan stuff. I read 5 books a month and am still learning. You can at least read a single article in its entirely and learn or be a lazy twit and not learn. "Scanning" is for lazy twits. Learning is for people with a little discipline.

  I'm not a lazy twit. I would hope that you would not be, either.

  Farkel, 62 Years Old and Learning Every Day
• 

  tec

  Farkel - you don't pull any punches, do you? Kind of a snap judgment though. It wasn't lack of attention span - it was more 'after midnight with two kids to get up for school in six hours.' I fully read the first two pages (including your posts). I read all of the 'counter-arguments' to what I personally believe. I scanned 'achristians' words - mostly because I assumed they would be something I had already heard or read. You're right in that I shouldn't assume, however, so I'll go back today and read his responses as well.

  Tammy