Studying my faith away

by the-illuminator81 45 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Leolaia
    At most only a few hundred of animals could be cared for in the Ark. So how could I deny evolution, stating that the 5-20 million species of earth were slowly evolving over hundreds of millions of years, but then preach that the same 5-20 million species evolved in only 4000 years from only a few hundred of animals? That just doesn't make any sense! And the watchtower library is totally silent on this issue.

    Congratulations for using your brain! :)

    Notice what it says in the Insight book: "Some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 'kinds' of mammals, 74 'kinds' of birds, and 10 'kinds' of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today" (Vol. 1, p. 165). And yet they criticize the idea that new species could arise via "macroevolution", which as summarized by the Watchtower Society assumes that "mutations provide the raw materials needed to create new species" and that "natural selection leads to the production of new species" (September 2006 Awake!, p. 13). This same article decidedly claims that macroevolution does not exist, yet it must exist if 43 "kinds" of mammals diversified into the 4,260 species that exist today, and presumably this is macroevolution occurring at a pace far, far beyond that assumed by biologists and from initial breeding populations far, far below that which would be considered viable for any endangered species to survive, and diversifying in the wake of a global cataclysm that destroyed all original habitats. And the Society also could not claim that this post-Flood macroevolution represented new creative activity on God's part since they also teach that the creative days are lengthy epochs and that God rested from his creative activity on the seventh day, which began once he created Adam and Eve. So if this macroevolution is not the result of God's creative work, then what natural mechanisms are responsible for it, if not the very ones the Society claims COULD NOT produce new species.

  • onemore


    Cult’s behavior is predictable. If you DA, you know for sure what the outcome will be, shunning, marriage problems, family problems, etc.

    If you FADE, you won’t know for sure what the outcome will be. The might come after you or they’ll forget about you and leave you alone….point is, if you fade, you never know what will happen. But at least it gives you and your family the time to get used to your new pattern of “behavior” (low or non-JW activities); while keeping communication with you.

    Regarding your faith (and I speak from my personal experience), the WT and other “extreme” fundamentalists promote an absolutist/literal approach to the Bible and its message. I encourage you to look at both side of the issues (regarding the flood, the tower of babel, etc), and I don’t mean the WT interpretation of the bible vs the skeptics’, but the work of many scholar that have presented evidence and intelligent arguments in favor of the message behind those biblical accounts.

    Here is just one example regarding the world wide flood:

    My advice to you is try to Fade and help your wife, but before you make any final decision, read Steve Hassan’s second book and Ray Franz’s In Search Of Christian Freedom. They will complement what you have learned so far and might help you reconsider your approach (not your decision to leave, because its a good one, but the way you handle the situation).



  • Lady Viola
    Lady Viola

    Welcome neighbor! (of kan ik beter zeggen: welkom! ;))

    I sooo understand what you're going through. I am trying to fade as well, but it is very hard. As said before, it is hard if you're from a die-hard dub-family, and I am. I never missed a meeting, was always the one with a lot of answers (one time I didn't answer and afterwards a few came to me to ask if there was something wrong.) during the WT etc. I haven't been in the ministry for 6 months now, but still gave in my hours-slip (just made up the hours), but haven't done this for july now.

    I did go to the convention, but haven't been to the meetings in a while now. I think that my latest meeting was 18th July.

    I have been studying about the WTS since the KM of november 2007, but after reading CoC in the Summer last year, I was convinced that I should leave this organisation. Since then I have been visiting website and forums and read ISoCF, The Gentile Times reconsidered, lot of other 'religious' books, such as 'Pauls Idea of Community' that was very eye-opening about the early day 'churches' and 'gatherings'.

    I also started my own company in January this year, but it wasn't the best of timing I'm afraid. I'm very very depressed about all the things that are happening and heading towards a burn-out. I have panicattacks, cry a lot and really just want to stay under the covers all day. I am ill for a few weeks now, and it is really hurting my body, because I can't seem to get out of this flu. Sometimes I can't even make myself going out... Don't know why. I really need to search for help. My dad also had a stroke in December and I really don't want to leave my parents alone. I am also afraid that if I would get disfellowshipped my dad would get another stroke and I couldn't live with myself if that happens.

    My husband has never been a person that would study the Bible and the publications as I do, so he understands what I say and is now not in the mood to go to the meetings either. He really can't be bothered. But as I have problems with my consience going to the meetings (sometimes I can't breath because of all the things I hear and have to go to the toilets to have a drink or put my head against the cold tiles) he doesn't understand this. If I say something about a doctrine change he would reply 'oh what did we believe before this change then?' And I think a lot of people of our age are like that. Like the new DVD, i was laughing my head off, but I know for a fact that a lot of friends of mine think it is a wonderful DVD and take it all in as truth. They never have even read the JW'book. I think I am the only geek that read it as an active dub.

    And the worst thing is that I feel guilt, guilt, guilt... It is like a second nature growing up in this cult and it is not going away. Especially when people sent me postcards etc. because they think I am ill (which is true, but still...).

    I tried to talk to my parents about it, but I can't get into their heads. Its so strange, they don't see it! Or they just don't want to see my problem. They invite me over for a meal or a nice gathering with friends from the cong. and they think the problem is gone. They don't understand that my problem is not with the 'people' but with the 'organisation'. I don't have the illusion that they will ever understand it. My dad is a witness since the 60's and my mum got baptised in '80. Their whole life IS the organisation.

    I feel sad and lost.

  • Mattieu

    Illuminator, welcome mate and all the best in sifting through the overwhelming thoughts that will be confronting you.... i look forward to wishing you a happy birthday soon! Cheers, Mattieu....

  • WalkTall

    Lady Viola, I totally understand where you are coming from. I too am trapped inside because I refuse to leave without my family. To leave would mean to have a different life, a separate existence, from them. Their lives are all wrapped up with the organization, so I play along as best as I can, doing an extremely slow fade and doing what I discreetly can to get them to start thinking for themselves. But I, too, sometimes, feel physically ill listening to the divisive, self-promoting propaganda at the meetings and have done the rush to the restroom a few times myself. Fortunately, right now the weather is agreeable so sometimes I just walk around outside to get some fresh air and clear my head for a while. I have discovered that being aware, being part of the conscious class, can be a lonely place to be sometimes. But it helps me to know that there are so many out there just like myself.

    Get the help that you need. This is a difficult time of transition for you. But you will get through it. There are many of us out here, fighting in the best way we know how, for our freedom and hoping that we can also free the ones we love. So, please remember you are not alone. Here I am across the world from you, feeling much the same way. We are all here, to listen and to help when we can, as we can truly understand some of what you are going through. If you like, please pm me anytime, and continue to post, especially when you are feeling sad and lost.

  • the-illuminator81

    Lady Viola, it was very moving to read your post (BTW, we know each other on PC.. I live very nearby you). I have been experiencing a wide range of emotions too, ending in depression. I was also one of the few who read the proclaimers book. At the time I was amazed at how dim the light was at the beginning of the last century. I never made the connection that this was supposed to be the time Jesus chose the faithful and discrete slave.

    Right now I'm trying to find ways to battle my depression. It's not nice to think about everything in a very negative way, even about positive things like going away on holiday and moving to a better house. Don't know how to get out of it yet.

    I hope you find a way to feel comfortable with your life again!

    I wonder about your guilt.. is it because you feel like you are lying or betraying those people? Or some other reason? I feel more like a victim than someone who is guilty of something.

    Leolaia: That quote from the insight book is from some really really old christian book and is based on a very outdated understanding of biology. Ridiculous that this is still their official view. Remember the childish dvd on Noah's time? Doesn't go into the issue at all. They don't want to touch this issue because they know it is a shitstorm waiting to happen.

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