by brotherdan 98 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
AuntBee Brotherdan - Protestant Christians believe anyone can be a true Christian who believes in Christ, and trusts in His death on the cross, for the forgiveness of their sins.
Mormons fit the description here but they won't be saved. Except for "the cross", JWs also agree with the statement too.
The litmus test is Jesus.
Mormons and JWs are similar in they believe Jesus is an angel and "a god".
For me, Jesus is "my Lord and my God" and "God with us".
Blessings,
Stephen
Ah, but do there really come from the Bible, or are 99% of them just strained interpretation, easily shown to be false when exposed to people who really know the Bible and aren't indoctrinated by the Org? I'd suggest it's the latter.
From the Bible. Paul was a tyrant as bad as any GB member for example, just as end-time alarmist, telling people they shouldn't marry, who they should talk to and associate with, telling them not to consider other philosophies and so on.
Chalam (Stephen),
I'm not talking about "fooled" JWs. I'm talking about those that realize that Jesus is NOT an angel. That he DID die on the cross for their sins. Who is to say what doctrines are REQUIRED for salvation? For example, MUST I believe in the Rapture (which I do, by the way), to be saved? Is that a REQUIRED doctrine? Then why is it only alluded to in the bible? What about the belief of living on earth again one day?
Is not belief in Christ and his sacrifice for our sins the main doctrine of the NT and the basis on which all men should be saved? There are probably MANY things that we will see that we had wrong once we are in heaven.
brotherdan I THINK I get what you are saying Chalam. But what about those that do follow Christ? They are only trying to help loved ones to see the truth. They are living as true Christians, and believe that Jesus IS the Christ and that he died for our sins and was raised on the 3rd day?
There are lots of heretical groups who apparently believe the gospel. However, look under the surface and you will find it is "another gospel" and as Paul describes, "no gospel at all" Galatians 1:6-8
It's not doctrine that saves us. Nor is it organization. But belief in Jesus.
16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
You have to have the right Jesus, there are lots of counterfeits out there Matthew 24:23-27
Try and cash those in and you will end up at a loss Matthew 7:21-23
Is it IMPOSSIBLE for the conscious class to be saved?
No, but the Holy Spirit usually leads those who are born again to leave this environment 1 Timothy 4:1-3
Blessings,
Stephen
But, slimboy, Paul was used by Jesus. The GB are not. When he said things about staying single and not having children, he made sure that they knew these were not inspired expressions but merely his opinions. He was granted visions that non of the other apostles were granted. He saw heaven itself.
You've gotta look at the Bible without religious glasses. And that includes without Atheistic glasses as well.
Get yourself a good translation of the Bible and devour it. You will find, like I did, that may major objections about it were answered and in fact, they tended to build my faith rather than destroy it.
Paul and the GB both claimed they were being used by God/Jesus. Interestingly it seems to have resulted in control freakery and Armageddon alarmism in both cases. If you tell me it was okay for Paul to act like that but not the GB because Paul really was hearing voices from God, I am afraid that cuts little ice. Let's judge them by their statements, aside from dubious claims to divine direction. On that basis the GB and Paul are of a kind.
When he said things about staying single and not having children, he made sure that they knew these were not inspired expressions but merely his opinions.
In some statements, but in others Paul was not averse to claiming to speak for God.
1 Cor 7:10To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
Conversely the GB have sometimes pointed out that they are merely giving Bible based advice not divine instructions.
brotherdan I'm not talking about "fooled" JWs. I'm talking about those that realize that Jesus is NOT an angel. That he DID die on the cross for their sins.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt10:32;Luke12:8;Rom10:9;1Cor12:3;Phil2:11&version=ESV
One needs to confess, not deny. If you profess Jesus is not Michael or "a god" but God with us you will be disfellowshipped.
Anyhow, the battle lines are draw from both sides.
brotherdan Who is to say what doctrines are REQUIRED for salvation? For example, MUST I believe in the Rapture (which I do, by the way), to be saved? Is that a REQUIRED doctrine?
The rapture is not a salvation issue, just the issue of how we get from glory to Glory.
Jesus is THE salvation issue John 14:6, John 10, John 5:39-41 etc.
brotherdan Then why is it only alluded to in the bible? What about the belief of living on earth again one day?
All believers will live on the earth come Revelation 21 Revelation 21:2, Revelation 21:10
brotherdan Is not belief in Christ and his sacrifice for our sins the main doctrine of the NT and the basis on which all men should be saved?
Yes. The WT teach that but I still don't think JWs can be saved. Their faith is actually in the WT who self righteously proclaim to be the mediator for the "non-annointed". Even the "144, 000" have a counterfeit Jesus as their mediator.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
brotherdan There are probably MANY things that we will see that we had wrong once we are in heaven.
Agreed. IMHO Jesus is certainly not one of them though.
Blessing in Christ,
Stephen
Slimboyfat said: "From the Bible. Paul was a tyrant as bad as any GB member for example, just as end-time alarmist, telling people they shouldn't marry, who they should talk to and associate with, telling them not to consider other philosophies and so on."
OK, I see what you are saying, but I still think a life lived according to an accurate Biblical perspective - even accounting for Paul - is waaaay freer than a JW one. This thread is in the context of Christians and people who believe in the Bible. So, for those people, they have to operate within that context. If they wish to do so, they are far better off as non-JW Christians than trying to do so while in the Org, IMO. Living as a 'true Christian' the way the Bible actually describes it is so alien to JW life and doctrine that one would have to keep it largely secret to avoid being DF'd. I think one would only make that choice in order to avoid being DF'd and losing family and friends.
You have to have the right Jesus, there are lots of counterfeits out there
Matthew 24:23-27
Let me guess..........YOUR Jesus is the right Jesus?
YOU are so full of shit. YOU are nothing but a cult vulture coming here.
Think About It
23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly.
Blessings,
Stephen
