Response to "Do you think the F&DS are directed by Holy Spirit"

by onefootout 42 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    "Is the Watchtower directed by God?"

    At exactly the same time my Dad said "No." and my Mom said "Yes."

    That's classic Heaven! The full, correct answer would have been. "As evidenced by all their errors, flip-flops, and false predictions, Watchtower is obviously NOT directed by God. However, under penalty of disfellowshipping, we are privileged to pretend that they are directed by Holy Spirit."

  • elderelite

    pirita hit the nail on the head. the "annointed" as a group claim to have no special insight. that eliminates the potential that someone in a congregation could try to overide the GB. It is claimed ONLY that the slave, as represented by the GB have special insight. Here is the question that always bothered me...

    how could anyone who is "spirit directed" make a mistake in bible understanding...? why would a doctrine ever change? yes men are imperfect, but God's sprit is not. if he could inspire the bible to be recorded perfectly by imperfect men, if could protect its translation as the WT claims over thousands of years, why cant he prevent those clowns in brooklyn from making mistakes? dosent add up to me...

  • skeeter1

    Insight. Oh yeah, Noah changed his predictions several times, right? Not.

    Based on a track record of predictions, the GB has no more insight then my piggy toe.

  • onefootout

    Aren't "Anointed" and "Faithful and discreet slave" totally interchangeable? To my knowledge, the GB have never claimed to have more holy spirit or greater insight than other anointed, they just say they represent the anointed/F&DS. And of course all the GB are also anointed. So when they say the anointed don't have any more insight than members of the great crowd, doesn't that HAVE to apply to them as well? I'm approaching this from the point of view of reasoning with someone who believes everything in the Watchtower/publications is absolute truth.

  • elderelite

    well concider the following:




    As the active Head of the congregation, Christ wanted this important doctrinal matter to be settled by the entire visible governing body. By means of the holy spirit, he guided the minds of these devoted men in making their decision.—Acts 15:28, 29.

    or this




    However, when the Scriptural direction may seem to us to be open to different opinions, we need to demonstrate the humble responsiveness that was shown by the early Christians and accept decisions and directions from God’s congregation.

    or this




    When questions arose, the holy spirit was a helper in arriving at a decision, as in the question of circumcision, decided by the body, or council, of apostles and older men at Jerusalem. Peter told of the spirit’s being granted to uncircumcised people of the nations; Paul and Barnabas related the spirit’s operations in their ministry among such persons; and James, his memory of the Scriptures doubtless aided by holy spirit, called attention to the inspired prophecy of Amos foretelling that God’s name would be called on people of the nations. Thus all the thrust or drive of God’s holy spirit pointed in one direction, and hence, in recognition of this, when writing the letter conveying their decision, this body or council said: “For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things.”—Ac 15:1-29.

    and further




    This decision helped Jewish and Gentile Christians to act and speak in unity. The congregations rejoiced, and precious unity continued, even as it does in God’s earth-wide family today under the spiritual guidance of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.—Acts 15:30-35.

    and how about this one




    The Governing Body relies on God’s holy spirit for direction. Its members do not regard themselves as the leaders of Jehovah’s people. Rather, like all anointed Christians on earth, they “keep following the Lamb [Jesus Christ] no matter where he goes.”—Rev. 14:4.

    The last one is particularly gaulling. Notice, the GB relies on God's spirit for direction, but they dont see themselves as leaders. In other words God's spirit talks to them, they repeat it, and we all move togther. So they dont decide anything. It all comes from God. Also, in response to what you mentioned earlier, no they are not interchangeable. Notice that the all these quotes regarding direction refer, not to the slave or the annointed, but to the GB. It is true that you have to be "annointed" to be of the GB, but just because you are annointed dosent allow you to have insight or direct God's people in JW land. ONLY the GB get to direct, or as that last quote says, use God's spirit to direct God's people.

  • thetrueone

    The WTS publishing company has come up with many proclamations to present themselves as truthful viable source of god's

    spirituality ( Holy Spirit ).

    Creating self supporting proclamations is what most religions do, especially ones that are financially supported by a publishing house.

    If you want to attract attention to your literature what would you do ?

    Sure the things the say is mostly shit, but distinguishing themselves from other religions which there are many, has its potential advantages.

    Religion is devised bullshit to attract the attention of the public, the WTS has done it in its very own way.

  • AudeSapere

    4 Years ago JWN Poster 'LDH' called JR Brown himself - Public Relations spokesman for the WTS. She started with questions about a Bethelite that had just been arrested then sequed into their position with regard to Spirit-Directedness.

    Link to the thread is:

    Here are some of LDH's notes (from page 2 of the thread):

    • JWs are BIBLE STUDENTS only. The Governing Body is NOT SPIRIT INSPIRED.
    • JWS as a whole are NOT INSPIRED
    • JWs are not the ONLY spokesperson organization of God on earth
    • THERE IS NO SPECIAL LINE TO GOD that the JW church has (I shit you not)
    • IS the JW a doomsday cult? No, because the word "doomsday" to them means only the end of wickedness. We are in the last days as seen in fulfillment of Bible prophecy regarding the signs.
    • Is there a PREDICTION of when the last days would end in a holocaust/Armegeddon etc. Is there insider knowledge of the END? NO THERE IS NOT
    • And I quote "We have zealously thought we would have more info by now about the exact time of the end but we don't" Follow up question--so there is no direct communication between God and the JWs on this matter? Correct.
    • The organization exists only to see the Good news proclaimed of God's kingdom which is made up of Chosen Rulers who are in heaven. The JWs will be subjects of that kingdom.

    A complete transcript (by Leoleia) of the call between LDH and JR Brown can be found here (Page 12 of the same thread):

    Straight from the Horse's mouth~!


    Edit to add:Then again, they seem to have a different answer for active witnesses than they do for the press and non-jws.

  • elderelite


    If that conversation happened, i'm not saying it didn't, that is complete CRAP!! every answer is directly contrary to the quotes i pulled, and of course there are many others like them. I wish the WT would print something like those answers. That would give me all the grounds I need to pull my wife away. unfortuantly the quotes above and many others show that the GB claim to have direction from God (in the form of HS). even the baptism vows say "in association with GOD SPIRIT DIRECTED ORGANISATION". Someone should call back and ask why they cant find quotes to support those answers in print...

  • Crisis of Conscience
    Crisis of Conscience

    elderelitehow could anyone who is "spirit directed" make a mistake in bible understanding...? why would a doctrine ever change? yes men are imperfect, but God's spirit is not. if he could inspire the bible to be recorded perfectly by imperfect men, if could protect its translation as the WT claims over thousands of years, why cant he prevent those clowns in brooklyn from making mistakes? dosent add up to me...

    The few people I've brought this up to can't refute it. And I've stated what's highlighted in green almost ver batim to what elderlite wrote, even before it was posted.

    Someone I was talking to about this at first tried to defend the mistakes by giving the example of Moses leading the Isrealites out of Egypt. He said that the Isrealites questioned why they were going to the Red Sea a different way when there was a much shorter way. He asked me, "Did it matter which way they went, since they still had Jehovah's protection and arrived there safely?"

    I responded with encouragement, as I have been taught by the TMS and KM. I said it was an excellent example. LOL

    But then I asked that where did it show that they were directed the COMPLETELY WRONG way, especially by Jehovah, who was guiding them with the pillar of light? They may have taken the LONG way, but were they told to turn around and go the COMPLETELY WRONG way? The answer given was an affirmative NO.

    Why is it, or should it be any different, with someone who claims to ask for God's guidance and feels they received it? Show they be completely off course, completely changing what they believe in, yet having asked God for Holy Spirit everytime a new idea was addressed? New light, IMO, should be adding on to something previously taught, not mutating it into a completely different beast (for example, the new generation understanding)! It's not new light if you change it, it's a new teaching (again IMO)!

    Sounds fishy. And the person agreed. But that dog gone FDS is a tough nut to crack! He reverted back to the point that, and still feels, they are providing direction today - wrong or right. AARGH!!


  • thetrueone

    I wonder if the F&DS didn't own a publishing company and used it to live from it , that it would be more truthful and honest ?

    In reality the WTS uses the F&DS as a means to make them appear viable to the public, its a self marketing ploy.

    If people were to perceive religions as used car dealers they would probably use more discerning scrutiny in choosing them .

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