1914 Doctrine is FALSE -- Questions for JW's

by UnDisfellowshipped 90 Replies latest jw friends

  • UnDisfellowshipped

    Bane said:

    "Un, Perhaps Jehovah is stopping you from posting crap"

    Wow, I am so happy to hear that Bane agrees with me that the Watchtower Article I was trying to post was "crap."

  • thetrueone

    Bane, welcome back did you enjoy your brainwashing at the Kingdom Hall recently ?

    No Trueone, You are not an atheist. You are an opposer. Do you see the difference?

    Actual Bane I am an atheist, my exposing facts about the disingenuous of the WTS. is just part of why

    I eventually became an atheist. What I'm opposed to is ignorance derived from previous human ignorances,

    taught and commercialized to the public such as the WTS has done for over a century.

    Children have been taught this crime of irrational reasoning and have killed themselves, since I witnessed this myself

    I feel a need to warn the public about this organization which has been built up on fraud, fear and coercion.

    A moment of education -

    What is secular humanism ?

    Secular Humanism describes a world view with the following elements and principles: [ 2 ]

    • Need to test beliefs – A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted by faith.
    • Reason, evidence, scientific method – A commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.
    • Fulfillment, growth, creativity – A primary concern with fulfillment, growth and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.
    • Search for truth – A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.
    • This life – A concern for this life (as opposed to an afterlife) and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.
    • Ethics – A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.
    • Building a better world – A conviction that with reason, an open exchange of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.
  • UnDisfellowshipped

    The only thing Bane knows how to do is use the logical fallacy of name-calling ("ad hominem" personal attacks) and to condemn all of us to Gehenna, while ignoring all of the evidence that is presented, and he posts the occasional Scripture which has nothing to do with what he is claiming, and then he declares that Jehovah has helped him once again to "Out-Scripturize" all of his opposers.

  • isaacaustin

    Bane, if the avatar you use is now assigned to you and can not be change, I am unaware. I signed up here several years ago and was able to choose my own. The site did change somewhat a year or two ago...

  • BANE

    Un, Didn´t know you were trying to post things from the WT. I couldn´t see it. For all I know it was the same apostate drivel from a man that thinks he came from a monkey.

  • Titus

    BANE, I dedicated one funny thread to you, and Scully locked it and rebuked me for that!

    Look: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/196748/1/BANE-I-found-you-on-Youtube

  • Vanderhoven7

    You asked:

    Is there any Jehovah's Witness who can answer these questions about 1914? Can you demonstrate, using the Holy Scriptures, that the Messianic Kingdom was established in 1914, that Jesus got the Full Legal Right to become King that year, and that Jesus returned invisibly in 1914, and that the "Last Days" began that year?

    A JW writes....or pastes rather

    "It's "biblical." How so?

    While it's true you won't find a specific date ( 1914 ) in Scripture, we do find this:

    As recorded at Luke 21:24, Jesus said: "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations [ "the times of the Gentiles," KingJamesVersion] are fulfilled." Jerusalem had been the capital city of the Jewish nation---the seat of rulership of the line of kings from the house of King David. (Psalm 48:1, 2) However, these kings were unique among national leaders. They sat on "Jehovah's throne" as representatives of God himself. (1 Chronicles 29:23) Jerusalem was thus a symbol of Jehovah's rulership.

    How and when, though, did God's rulership begin to be "trampled on by the nations"? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. "Jehovah's throne" became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26) Would this 'trampling' go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem's last king, Zedekiah: "Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one's until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him." (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has "the legal right" to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) So the 'trampling' would end when Jesus became King.

    When would that grand event occur? Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time. The account in Daniel chapter 4 holds the key to knowing how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He saw an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump could not grow because it was banded with iron and copper. An angel declared: "Let seventimes pass over it." --- Daniel 4:10-16.

    In the Bible, trees are sometimes used to represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) So the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God's rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interrupted. However, the vision served notice that this 'trampling of Jerusalem' would be temporary---a period of "seven times." How long a period is that?

    Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal "a thousand two hundred and sixty days." "Seven times" would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days. But the Gentile nations did not stop "trampling" on God's rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalem's fall. Evidently, then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, which speak of "a day for a year," the "seven times" would cover 2,520 years.

    The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, "the appointed times of the nations" ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God's heavenly King. --- Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14.

    Just as Jesus predicted, his "presence" as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments --- war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of God's heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of "the last days" of this present wicked system of things.--- 2 Timothy 3:1-5.

  • researcher72
    Why Daniel Used the Word 'Times' not Years

    The seven times prophecy, comes from the seven times prophecy Daniel gave about King Nebuchadnezzar seven-year sickness. The King has a dream about a tree being cut down, and seven times passing over it. Some assert that the tree dream only applied to Neb, that he would have his sickness for 7 years and then be restored after that 7 years, and it has no further application. However, it is most interesting that the word Daniel chose to use concerning the tree was not the same word used for the word ‘year’. He used the word iddan which means epoch, age, seasons, or times.

    The word iddan is not what would be used merely to describe one year if one year is what is meant. There is a different word used to describe the word ‘year’. For example, the word for year in Hebrew is shana. By using the word iddan it becomes evident that Daniel wanted to convey the thought that something was meant beyond a simple seven years. Otherwise, why not just use the word for years?

  • researcher72

    What can we conclude concerning Daniel’s use of the word iddan? That Daniel must have used that word for ‘times’ for some purpose. We have to wonder why? Why use the word ‘times’ instead of years? There must be a reason. If the tree dream is only to be applied to Nebuchadnezzar then why didn’t the prophecy simply say 7 years. Why 7 times?

    Consider the fact that Revelation later shows us that 7 times can equal 2,520. So, apparently it was meant for 7 times to be deciphered as 2,520 in order to show us that it has greater significance other than just the 7 years upon Nebuchadnezzar. Otherwise, why the clues?

    There can be no doubt that the mention of times in Revelation was only written to help us figure out the the length of seven times in Daniel. Otherwise, John could have just been directed to write 1,260 days — there was no need whatsoever for him to repeat himself and also write ‘time times and half of times’, because it does not help us in the interpretation of Revelation at all. In other words, the 7 times in Daniel do not help us to figure out what the 3½ times are in Revelation. It is the other way around.

    Consider this: If 7 times mean only 7 years, then Daniel could have simply said 7 years. Then Revelation could have simply said 3½ years or 1,260 days or 42 months. And nobody would ever even need to mention 'times' and everyone would be happy and understand it all. Furthermore, Daniel’s mention of 3½ times in connection with 1,260 days could also have been removed, as the same number — 1,260 days — is also mentioned in Revelation. The whole business of “times” is superfluous — unless it used as a key in understanding the 7 times.

  • researcher72

    In view of the foregoing, is it reasonable to think that Daniel 4 is only about Nebuchadnezzar? Why does Daniel specifically use the word ‘times’ rather than years? And why does Revelation then help us to see the length of 7 times? And why does Daniel tell of 7 times passing over until the lowliest one of mankind is set up. Dan 4:17, “to the intent that people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that to the one whom he wants to, he gives it and he sets up over it even the lowliest one of mankind.” Words about the lowliest one of mankind being set up,This cannot be mere coincidence, can it?

Share this