Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?

by flipper 269 Replies latest jw friends

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @hadit:

    Flipper - your patience astounds me! It is so scary how mind controlled some people are. It runs so deep that they actually BELIEVE that what they say is coming from themselves.

    If I were to learn the lyrics to a song, like "Looks Like We Made It" by Barry Manilow, or "My Girl" by The Temptations, or "How Do I Live" by LeAnn Rimes," and after studying them and singing them for a period of time came to believe I knew the lyrics to all three of these songs, would you describe my belief that I know the lyrics to these songs as "mind control"? Let me ask you a different question:

    Have you heard folks say, "Let him that is without sin cast the first stone"? Typically they will credit Jesus with making this statement, and based on this statement argue that no one has the right to cast stones at or criticize anyone else since none of us are without sin, right? Do you think it to be a case of "mind control" that you believe this statement is coming from you?

    Have you ever read the Bible? I mean, have you ever really read the Bible as you would, say, a novel? Assuming that you have ever read the Bible, do you recall reading somewhere in the Bible the statement, "Let he that is without sin cast the first stone"? Such a statement can be found in the NWT and in other Bibles as well, but did you know that Jesus never made such a statement? Do you think it to be a case of "mind control" that you now believe that Jesus made this statement when he really didn't make it at all?

    Whenever I make a statement, clearly, it comes from me. Whether the statement I make be true or false, if I make it, even if I should qualifying it in some way, then clearly that statement comes from me. I do not have to believe the statement to be true, but if I make it, then it clearly comes from me. If I quote something that you yourself have said, even if I don't believe one word of your statement, if I say it, then it is clear that this statement came from me. Do you think it to be a case of "mind control" should I repeat a statement that originated with you? What if it were you that repeated one of my statements: Do you think it to be a case of "mind control" should you repeat a statement of mine, one that originated with me? Now were you to repeat one of my statements, would that meant that you necessarily subscribe to this statement of mine as being a true statement? Would it be a case of "mind control" should you repeat one of my statements to someone, even if you don't yourself believe there to be any truth to my statement?

    The fact that the English language has been re-written to [suit] false prophesy over and over again is crazy.

    I'm trying to wrap my mind around this statement of yours. Has the French language been rewritten also so that the meaning of these French words provide support for what things are published in French language versions of the Watchtower? Or, is it true that the English. German and Italian languages have all been rewritten in such a way so that the definitions of English words, German words and Italian words provide support for what things are published in English language, German language and Italian language versions of the Watchtower? If this is what you are saying here, then one would have to be crazy to believe this statement of yours has any merit.

    I guess the fact that the Bible says nobody know the day or the hour is completely irrelevant and they must keep seeking such day and hour and generation.

    Are you suggesting that Jehovah's Witnesses or the WTS or the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses are out to make Jesus a liar by seeking the day and hour," when Jesus stated at Matthew 24:30 that no man knows "the day or hour"? You mentioned "generation," but Jehovah's Witnesses do not take the view that our understanding as to what it was Jesus meant at Matthew 24:34 when he said there that "this generation will by no means pass away until all these things [that Jesus mentions in Matthew 24 and 25] occur" is "completely irrelevant."

    Knowing the season for the Lord's arrival engenders faith in a world where faith can be so easily eroded, so this would be a relevant inquiry for Christians to make, which is exactly the kind of inquiry that Jesus' disciples made of him after Jesus' resurrection when he was asked by them, "Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?" (Acts 1:6)

    Alerting the Jews to the Roman armies that were going to bring an assault on Jerusalem and on its temple, and "great tribulation" to the Jews, at Luke 19:44 Jesus told them that "they will dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected." At Matthew 24:15, 16, Jesus told his disciples to "use discernment" when interpreting his words: "When you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,) then let those in Ju·de'a begin fleeing to the mountains."

    In referring to "the disgusting thing that causes desolation," Jesus spoke in code that could only be understood by the discerning Christians, as the Jews would be familiar with Daniel's prophecy at Daniel 9:27, which reads, in pertinent part, "And upon the wing of disgusting things there will be the one causing desolation..." The ensigns borne by the Roman army were virtual idols, that were considered disgusting by the Jews, so when the Romans had besieged Jerusalem, surrounded it and had begun to undermine the walls of the temple that the Jews had deemed "a holy place, Christians would discern Jesus to have been saying to them that "when they should see the Romans standing in Jerusalem" they should then flee to the mountains at their first opportunity to do so.

    Now what occurred in 66 AD and later in 70 AD as a "great tribulation" to the Jews in their "holy place" was the minor fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy. However, since we do not yet know the details as to how the major fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy will occur, we will have to wait for the actual fulfillment of it to know all of the details as it will affect us today, but discernment is necessary in order to interpret Jesus' words at Matthew 24:15, 16.

    At Luke 21:29-32, Jesus provided this illustration: "Note the fig tree and all the other trees: When they are already in the bud, by observing it you know for yourselves that now the summer is near. In this way you also, when you see these things occurring, know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you, This generation will by no means pass away until all things occur."

    This is why Jehovah's Witnesses are so interested in the season as to how far along "this generation" is before the "great tribulation" occurs and because the entire household of faith is quite interested in discerning the season, the meaning of Jesus' words at Matthew 24:34 is relevant to all Jehovah's Witnesses. If you should read Jesus' words at Matthew 24:34 regarding "this generation" without discernment, then you cannot properly interpret the meaning of Jesus' words.

    Major and minor prophecies? Yes, that is just what Jesus meant. He meant the first generation will be 37 years but the major fulfillment will be much longer and has just now informed the GB in Brooklyn. I guess Holy Spirit gets confused sometimes and has to go back and forth on what it really means.

    In the minor fulfillment, this "first generation" was impacted by the great tribulation that destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in 70 AD, some 37 years after Jesus' prophecy, and while in hindsight we know there were 37 years between when Jesus uttered this prophecy and its fulfillment, Jesus wasn't predicting a number of years at all, but an event in a generation of the sign that lasted for a period of 37 years. In the major fulfillment, however, we know that some 96 years have elapsed between the year 1914, which was the beginning of the sign of Christ's presence and the current year of 2010, so we know that the generation of the sign is a period of at least 96 years and counting.

    Not one member of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses can do more than guess as to the length of this generation since Jesus did say that no one, but the Father knows "the day or hour" when the end of this world -- Armageddon -- would begin. All Christians today -- and by this I refer to Jehovah's Witnesses, including the governing body -- rely upon what the holy spirit says in God's word in order to understand the written word of God. To some this may sound redundant and to others this may be an incomprehensible statement, but I'm going to explain what it means when I say here that Jehovah's Witnesses "rely upon the holy spirit to understand the written word of God."

    Many of the folks that actively participate in this thread and in other threads on this forum were formerly associated with Jehovah's Witnesses in some capacity. Some here are dedicated and baptized servants that have decided to get off that narrow road and join the rest of the world on that broad road; not that this decision was the best decision that they could have made IMO, but this was their choice, and I respect their right to have made this choice. Some here have studied the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses, but for whatever reason elected not to become dedicated Christians, and this was their choice and I respect their right to have made this choice. Please note carefully to the following three (3) examples:

    Those who are dedicated Witnesses of Jehovah must admit that they only came to know that there is no such thing as an immortal human soul, for they know from one of Jehovah's Witnesses that the soul dies, it having been pointed out to them in God's written word where the holy spirit says, quote: "The soul that is sinning -- it itself will die." The holy spirit says this at Ezekiel 18:4, 20.

    Those who are dedicated Witnesses of Jehovah must admit that they only came to know that there is no such thing as a hellfire of torment to which the wicked are consigned after their death, for they know from one of Jehovah's Witnesses that the "those under the ground" will receive a resurrection, it having been pointed out to them in God's written word where the holy spirit says, quote: "There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." The holy spirit says this at Acts 24:15.

    In addition to what the angels in heaven ("those in heaven") and the survivors of the great tribulation ("those on earth") will already be doing, the resurrected dead ("those under the ground") will likewise have to bend the knee in acknowledgment of the fact that "Jesus Christ is Lord." The holy spirit says at Philippians 2:10, 11, quote: "That Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."

    To say that the "Holy Spirit gets confused," when by the words "holy spirit," to what we are referring in each of these examples is to the written word of God, that is to say, we are referring to what the Bible states, this notion of the holy spirit becoming "confused" is indicative of confusion as to what the holy spirit itself is. The holy spirit has often been described as a force, even God's active force, the way in which God accomplishes His will. But what exactly is meant when we say that the spirit is "a force"?

    Well, what is the force of your own words? Let's say that, on a Monday, you were to have told the payee on the check you had written the following:

    I will writ e you a check #2001 for the asking price of the automobile, but do not deposit the check or make an attempt to cash the check before Friday.

    Would you say that spirit of your own words would be that your check #2001 should not be deposited or cashed until Friday? If your check were deposited on a Tuesday, a Wednesday or a Thursday, so that "NSF" fees are incurred as a result of the payee's ignoring the force of your words, would you say that the force or the spirit of the words "do not deposit the check ... before Friday" was honored by the payee?

    The spirit of your words was that the payee should not walk your check #2001 into a bank or deposit this check until Friday. The force of your words doesn't take on the character of holy spirit, but they definitely had force since, if the spirit of your words were acknowledged by the payee, then no attempt would be made before Friday to cash or otherwise deposit the check. Now let's refer back to the spirit of God's word, the force that the written word of God should have on those that read and respect the things that God says in the Bible.

    Jehovah's Witnesses, including the governing body, rely upon the holy spirit to understand the written word of God. Consequently, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the soul is not immortal, because the holy spirit says, "The soul that is sinning -- it itself will die." Where? At Ezekiel 18:4, 20. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that there will be a resurrection, because the holy spirit says, "There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." Where? At Acts 24:15. Jehovah's Witneses believe that everyone in heaven and on earth, as well as those who will be resurrected, will all acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, because the holy spirit says, "Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." Where? At Philippians 2:10, 11.

    In reality, the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses reads the Bible seeking to get Jehovah's mind, Jehovah's thinking, in what things He has provided in his written word, and based upon what it has been able to discern from their reading of the Bible and from the comments made by other Jehovah's Witnesses from their reading of the Bible also, it is reasonable to conclude at this time that the word "generation" to be Jesus referred at Matthew 24:34 is a period of time, and that by "this generation" what Jesus had in mind was the generation that began in 1914 and that will end sometime after the great tribulation.

    To be sure, the holy spirit doesn't get confused. The Bible says what it says, but Christians endeavor to comprehend what the holy spirit says, and for anyone to contradict what the holy spirit says is to grieve God's spirit.

    But that's okay because Pluto is no longer considered a planet!

    I only mentioned the fact that Pluto is no longer considered to be a planet to make the point that whatever it is Jehovah's Witnesses formerly believed with respect to the meaning of "ths generation" at Matthew 24:34 is analogous to what folks used to believe as to Pluto being a planet. Just as we no longer consider Pluto be a planet, we no longer believe what things we formerly believed to have been the meaning of "this generation" at Matthew24:34 based on the fact that 96 years has passed between1914 and 2010, and our reading of Exodus 1:6. You want to deride me for making the analogy, but I submit that this is would be par for the course if you did not understand my analogy. I don't think the analogy was "high-brow" or that it required an intellectual to comprehend it, but perhaps I was mistaken and only a genius could understand it.

    As the kids say, "My bad."

    I've notice that the word hate is used so fast by some people - it's like they love for people to hate them. I guess it makes them feel better that they are hated and persecuted by the world. They grope for hate when there is no hate. That means they have the truth. They don't see that they are the ones who hate. How sad! Jesus taught love not hate. I guess one is not allowed to speak their mind without being considered hateful. I guess people with differing opinions than the WTS are hateful. You are the last person I would consider hateful! Your posts are kind and loving even if in disagreement with another.

    I realize that your words here were to the OP (@flipper) and not to me, but I don't believe I said a thing about @flipper was hateful. I indicated that if he wanted to hate the WTS, the governing body, other Jehovah's Witnesses or even me, that it was his prerogative to do so.

    @carla:

    Why do jw's bring up Pluto whenever you point out their erroneous new light theology?

    Why do you subscribe my analogy about Pluto to all Jehovah's Witnesses generally? Is it because I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses that you believe that all other Jehovah's Witnesses must likewise subscribe to my analogy? If so, ok, but I don't believe it to be true that all Jehovah's Witnesses believe the same things, except when it comes to Bible teachings (and my analogy about the dwaft planet Pluto has nothing at all to do with the Bible).

    Scientists do not claim to speak for God! they do not claim to have the only 'channel' to God. They don't even claim their theories are 100% correct, that is why they are theories not facts. That is why they have debate in the scientific community!

    Jesus became God's greatest prophet or channel of communication through whom God conveyed information to benefit mankind. Then in 33 AD, Christians became an organized body of preachers through whom God also conveyed vital information to benefit mankind, the Christian congregation became an organization of preachers. Just as there was a progression of Bible truths that were revealed after a period of time to the early Christian congregation -- for example, in 49 AD with respect to circumcision -- where adjustments to their previous understanding needed to be made, a progression of Bible truths have been revealed to the Christian congregation today where adjustments to our previous understanding of these things needed to be made. Jehovah's Witnesses do not proffer theories, for what things we believe and teach others is based on Bible truth, and not the speculations of men, as is the case in the scientific community.

    Can you imagine debate about the word generation in a kh or during a meeting? If you claim to speak for God you darn well better get it right or you WILL be labeled a false prophet.

    I cannot imagine debating the word "generation" in a Kingdom Hall or in any congregational meeting, but I can imagine discussions involving the meaning and use of the word "generation" in the Bible being had since such discussions take place all of the time among God's people, and not just among members of the governing body. If anyone should label Jehovah's Witnesses as "false prophets," this label would not be appropriate, for a true prophet is someone that speaks for Jehovah, and "speak for Jehovah" is what Jehovah's Witnesses endeavor to do.

    jw's want their cake and eat it too, usually they don't like scientists and claim they are wrong, carbon dating is wrong, etc..etc... and now they want to pull out what scientists do and say to prove a jw point?

    What are you talking about here? Jehovah's Witnesses are not anti-science. Carbon dating, which you mention here for some unknown reason is a flawed dating system, and not just Jehovah's Witnesses know and acknowledge this fact. Why do you mention carbon dating at all? Is this some kind of strawman that you decided to erect in order to maybe jettison my analogy about the change of definition regarding Pluto. So what?

    @djeggnog

  • flipper
    flipper

    EGGNOG- Jesus didn't lie about what a generation is. Jehovah's Witnesses and the WT society lie about it because they want to dupe, deceive and take advantage of JW members to keep them hooked into the game by contributing $$$$ to the WT society. They coerce older members to donate estates, wills, inheritances, cars, jewlery and possessions so as to contribute to a multimillion $$$$ yearly WT society income. If they didn'y keep the " generation overlap " theory going - their control over members would be over. Financial & otherwise.

    Jehovah's Witnesses, the governing body & the anointed don't rely on " holy spirit " to interpret prophecies and the Bible. They rely on imperfect, self serving humans who are no better than you and me. Period. That's why Armageddon will never happen. It's a dream

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @flipper:

    Jesus didn't lie about what a generation is.

    I never intimated that Jesus lied about anything. You want to make me out to have said this, that's fine, but I didn't say anything even resembling such a statement.

    Jehovah's Witnesses and the WT society lie about it because they want to dupe, deceive and take advantage of JW members to keep them hooked into the game by contributing $$$$ to the WT society. They coerce older members to donate estates, wills, inheritances, cars, jewlery and possessions so as to contribute to a multimillion $$$$ yearly WT society income. If they [didn't] keep the " generation overlap " theory going - their control over members would be over. Financial & otherwise.

    I resent the implications that Jehovah's Witnesses are involved in dispossessing folks of their wealth and/or worldly possessions. I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and my interest in folks, even in you, is that you come to realize that the Bible contains the truth about God and about the condition in which we human beings find ourselves. That the Bible informs us as to why it is we die, and about God's provision through Christ to give to humans the same freedom that many of the sons of God already enjoy today: Eternal life, but here on earth.

    According to this world's standards, I am a successful man, so contrary to what you are here suggesting is true about all Jehovah's Witnesses (just because you resent that the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses can live their lives without having to support themselves in the same manner that maybe you and I must due to their being absorbed with very real spiritual issues that relate to the household of faith), I have no need to be exploiting anyone, and, quite frankly, you are a liar to be asserting such dishonest motives to our governing body. It does take money to support the preaching work in which Jehovah's Witnesses are dedicated to do, but despite the rather limited resources of Jehovah's organization through the meager contributions made by Jehovah's Witnesses toward the work, we manage to do works greater than did the Lord Jesus Christ as today the reach of the Christian ministry continues to spread mightily in the world.

    You are free to believe that the WTS, the governing body or any number of Jehovah's Witnesses have conspired to defraud other Jehovah's Witnesses of their wealth and other valuable things (like their time), but speaking just for myself as one of these Jehovah's Witnesses that you are demonizing here, I resent the implication that I do not really believe the Bible to be God's word, but use it to "con" folks into contributing to the coffers of the WTS.

    Jehovah's Witnesses, the governing body & the anointed don't rely on " holy spirit " to interpret prophecies and the Bible. They rely on imperfect, self serving humans who are no better than you and me. Period. That's why Armageddon will never happen. It's a dream.

    In harmony with something I stated in my earlier post to @hadit, you are likely one of those folks that used to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses that never quite understood what it means for any of us to "rely upon the holy spirit to understand the written word of God." Consequently, you, like many of former Jehovah's Witnesses, tend to make statements that indicate an ignorance of what the holy spirit is and how it works. I didn't study the Bible with you, but had I done so, many things would have been explained to you so that you would either have become a true disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ or not, because I would never recommend dedication and baptism to any Bible student that doesn't demonstrate having more than having a surface knowledge of what things the Bible teaches. Anyone that believes Armageddon to be a dream and promotes such false doctrine has to be extremely ignorant about God's word.

    Yes, there are often quotas of sorts that certain bodies of elders promote that lead to folks being baptized that are as ignorant about God's word as is apparent to me that you are about God's word, but anyone that says the things that you do have said about God's spirit due to such ignorance cannot possibly grieve it! This is just my opinion, but Jehovah knows whether your ignorance concerning He and His word is genuine or not.

    Maybe Jesus' executional forces will give you a pass due to your ignorance being the fault of the individual with whom you studied the Bible and the elders that signed off on your getting baptized to best the number of those baptized in some other congregation. (This does happen and you may be the product of such nonsense perpetrated in Jesus' name, but no one ever said that Jehovah's people were perfect either.)

    And if I'm being honest here, I should also say, "... and maybe not," since only faith in Jehovah's provision of the ransom saves; I don't believe that ignorance will save anyone, but I'm just being honest. Not one of Jehovah's Witnesses has been given the authority by Christ to convert anyone to Christ, so I have to leave the matter of your lack of faith in God as well as your failure to appreciate that Armageddon is imminent during "this generation" (Matthew 24:34) to Jehovah.

    I do wonder though how many fools there were back in 2370 BC that thought that because they didn't want to believe that they were being drenched by the "precipitation" that was coming from the heavens as they climbed to higher ground as the waters rose higher and higher, as if continued unbelief on their part that rain was coming down from the skies above could have helped preserve their souls alive through their "Armageddon"!

    It is, of course, your choice to believe a lie (2 Thessalonians 2:11), just as it is my choice to believe the truth about Armageddon, and I am absolutely confident that Jehovah will not stand in anyone's way of believing whatever it is they should choose to believe either. No one can force anyone else to not be overly suspicious of the motives of anyone else, especially absent proof. Many innocent people have been convicted of crimes that they did not commit due to the same untrusting mindset that you seem to have, @flipper.

    @djeggnog

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    OH DEAR GOD

    HB

  • MsDucky
    MsDucky
    OH DEAR GOD

    Ditto. Did you read it ALL? I couldn't get past the first paragraph! LOL!

  • Ultimate Reality
    Ultimate Reality

    Will someone please provide the SCRIPTURAL JUSTIFICATION for the 'major' and 'minor' fulfillment concept of a Bible prophecy? The so-called 'double-sense' method of interpretation...aka Parallel Dispensations.

    The Society is completely dependent on this concept. However, the 'new' generation definition does cause problems since the 'second, larger fulfillment' no longer matches the 1st century time of a generation (leading up to 70CE) nor the concept of a generation (like the one that 'saw the events of 1914').

  • Simon Morley
    Simon Morley

    EGGNOD: Malachi 3: 6 States "I am Jehovah, I have not changed" Jesus said " It does not belong to you to get knowldge of the times and seasons" at Acts 1:7. Taking Malachi as an absolute truth, Jesus rightly discouraged his followers from being precoccupied with dates, times, seasons, etc as they related to his coming or events associated with the last days. However, contrary to the scriptural injunction at Acts 1:7 the WTBS have made Matt 24:34 a central core belief (hinge point for the 1914 start of the last days) taking what Jesus said did not belong to them and repeatedly changed it from one understanding to the next.

    The flip-flopping on Matt 24:34 by the WTBS sadly serves to undermine a belief in a God that does, in fact change, somewhat whimsically when it comes to evidently not knowing whether the generation he asked his son to speak about at Matt 24:34 are "sons" or "wicked" - quite a swing. The effect is that when we need to explicitly trust God, we can't because he can't be trusted on what has been recorded in scrripture. It also shows immense disrespect for Jesus, who told us not to be concerned. The Living Bible puts it even more pointedly that the NWT: " "The Father sets those dates...and it is not for you to know". Jesus' prophecy at Matt 24:34 came true when the generation he spoke to saw the destruction of Jerusalem approx 37 years later. He never misled his followers with clever semantics or etimology - it was just not his nature.

    One thing is true, the WTBS in their disobedience of God and Jesus fullfil the absolute truth at Deuteronomy 13:1-3, paraphrased, "if it does not come true, don't listen to them"

    Simon Morley

  • flipper
    flipper

    DJEGGNOG- Whether you resent my comments about the WT society unjustly taking advantage in encouraging people to donate wills, inheritances, estates, cars, jewelry, and possessions - I really don't care. I speak the truth. Once the WT society HAS attained those possessions legally who do YOU think will benefit from them ? The leaders of the organization. Certainly not the poor rank and file publishers . Do you think the WT society will share the wealth they recieve and write checks dispersing the wealth among JW members ? If you say " yes " then you are really duped.

    I am not a liar. If you don't believe how much wealth the WT society possesses - why don't you google any WT society financial information on the internet and inform yourself ? Instead of getting all defensive about what you are not aware of. You say you're successful, you claim to be bright . Prove it to yourself. I don't care if you are intelligent or not. It's a non-issue to me. What is a issue is knowing the REAL truth about what the WT society tries to do in mind controlling and manipulating it's members.

    I do agree with your point " I don't believe that ignorance will save anyone. " That's why I try to enlighten people to the deceptioons of the WT society.

    HAMSTERBAIT- I second your comment.

    MsDUCKY- I 3rd your comment.

    ULTIMATE REALITY- I agree. I've always felt the WT society's attempt to make a initial and second application of prophecy was quite arrogant and presupmtous on their part.

    SIMON MORLEY- Very well spoken . " If it does not come true, do not listen to them " . I agree completely

  • The Finger
    The Finger

    djeggnog,

    Do you think the Watchtower is scrupulously honest?

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @hamsterbait:

    OH DEAR GOD

    Is there a question in your mind that you forgot to ask? Or, [email protected]'s comment be a fair interpretation of what you did not say in your post? (Just curious)

    @hamsterbait wrote:

    OH DEAR GOD

    @MsDucky wrote:

    Ditto. Did you read it ALL? I couldn't get past the first paragraph!

    What didn't you understand exactly? Perhaps if you would take a moment to gather your thoughts, you could manage to ask me a question that might help you to get to the second paragraph of my post. I'm curious to know what seemed to you to be so hard to comprehend the first paragraph of it (if anything).

    LOL!

    Should you want to be taken seriously, you might consider losing the effusively fake irony.

    @Ultimate Reality:

    Will someone please provide the SCRIPTURAL JUSTIFICATION for the 'major' and 'minor' fulfillment concept of a Bible prophecy? The so-called 'double-sense' method of interpretation...aka Parallel Dispensations.

    I assume you know that the words "minor" and "major" fulfillment of Bible prophecies are pretty much only put out there by Jehovah's Witnesses, so your interest in comprehending the "concept" of them, especially in referring to "parallel dispensations," would suggest an appreciation for the concept. Except as to what 1 Corinthians 4:1 says about the role of a steward of God --

    Let a man so appraise us as being subordinates of Christ and stewards of sacred secrets of God.

    -- your question here is vague, for what connection do you believe there to be between the fulfillment of Bible prophecies and what you here refer to as "parallel dispensations"? I detect disbelief in you as to whether there can be both a minor fulfillment as well as a major fulfillment of a Bible prophecy, so I'd appreciate a bit of clarification as to what you are asking, lest this question of yours prove to be more of an objection than a genuine question.

    The Society is completely dependent on this concept. However, the 'new' generation definition does cause problems since the 'second, larger fulfillment' no longer matches the 1st century time of a generation (leading up to 70CE) nor the concept of a generation (like the one that 'saw the events of 1914').

    So your point is what? Did the WTS violate some unwritten rule in your view that you believe discourages a second and larger fulfillment after a "minor" one?

    [T]he Bible ... gives no number of years for a generation.... [I]n the texts mentioning the generation [Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32]..., we are not to take generation as meaning the average time for one generation to be succeeded by the next, as Webster’s does in its 33-year approximation; but rather... "the average lifetime of man." Three or even four generations may be living at the same time, their lives overlapping....

    [W]e could not calculate from such a figure the date of Armageddon, for the texts here under discussion do not say God’s battle comes right at the end of this generation, but before its end. To try to say how many years before its end would be speculative. The texts merely set a limit that is sufficiently definite for all present practical purposes. Some persons living A.D. 1914 when the series of foretold events began will also be living when the series ends with Armageddon. All the events will come within the span of a generation.

    The above quotation was a response back in 1952 to the question: "Your publications point out that the battle of Armageddon will come in this generation, and that this generation began A.D. 1914. Scripturally, how long is a generation?" [w52 9/1 QFR]

    As I pointed out to @flipper in a previous post:

    There is but one generation of the sign with the anointed that saw the beginning of this sign and the anointed that will not pass away when the great tribulation comes toward the end of the sign. There is no reason for anyone to be attempting to force two [generations] into becoming a single generation since Jesus specifically spoke of "this generation," which is not two generations, but only one. The only significant change here between the viewpoint of Jehovah's Witnesses back in 1952 and the viewpoint of Jehovah's Witnesses in 2010 is that we have come to realize that the "generation" to which Jesus referred at Matthew 24:34 referred to the period of time that spanned the length of the sign of Christ's presence, which generation began in 1914 and will eventually come to an end, during which generation the lives of Jesus' anointed brothers as a group overlap.

    @Simon Morley:

    Malachi 3: 6 States "I am Jehovah, I have not changed" Jesus said " It does not belong to you to get [knowledge] of the times and seasons" at Acts 1:7. Taking Malachi as an absolute truth, Jesus rightly discouraged his followers from being [preoccupied] with dates, times, seasons, etc as they related to his coming or events associated with the last days.

    No, he didn't. I appreciate that this is your opinion, but I'm giving you mine: Jesus didn't 'rightly discourage' his followers from being preoccupied with times and seasons. In one of my recent posts to @flipper, I make the point that "[k]nowing the season for the Lord's arrival engenders faith in a world where faith can be so easily eroded...."

    I also make the point that by his "[a]lerting the Jews to the Roman armies that were going to bring an assault on Jerusalem and on its temple, and "great tribulation" to the Jews, ... Jesus told them that "they will dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected." (Luke 19:44)

    There was one other point I made in my point to @flipper that I feel I should mention here: Jesus provided an illustration as to our ability to recognize the season when a fig tree begins to bud: "Note the fig tree and all the other trees: When they are already in the bud, by observing it you know for yourselves that now the summer is near. In this way you also, when you see these things occurring, know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you, This generation will by no means pass away until all things occur." (Luke 21:29-32)

    Jehovah's Witnesses are rightly interested in the season as to how far along "this generation" has come and so we are very interested in discerning the season. Like I told @flipper, "[i]f you should read Jesus' words at Matthew 24:34 regarding 'this generation' without discernment, then you cannot properly interpret the meaning of Jesus' words."

    However, contrary to the scriptural injunction at Acts 1:7 the WTBS have made Matt 24:34 a central core belief (hinge point for the 1914 start of the last days) taking what Jesus said did not belong to them and repeatedly changed it from one understanding to the next.

    How so? I believe the "central core belief" and teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses has centered around our announcement of the end of the Gentile times and the commencement of the heavenly rulership of the Lord Jesus Christ in the now-established kingdom of God since 1914, and the need for folks to exercise faith in this kingdom as good news and in qualifying to receive the benefit of the release by ransom made possible by Jesus Christ. Matthew 24:34 is not a central core belief of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    The flip-flopping on Matt 24:34 by the WTBS sadly serves to undermine a belief in a God that does, in fact change, somewhat whimsically when it comes to evidently not knowing whether the generation he asked his son to speak about at Matt 24:34 are "sons" or "wicked" - quite a swing.

    This is just nonsense. There has been no "flip-flopping" on anything. There was recently announced a clarification as to how Jehovah's Witnesses should understand Jesus' words "this generation" at Matthew 24:34, and this clarification doesn't affect anyone but what we might teach others as to the significance of Matthew 24:34 referring to a period of time commencing with the beginning of the composite sign in 1914 and ending near the great tribulation, during which some of Jesus' anointed brothers that witnessed the beginning of the sign will see the end of the sign.

    If you are not personally one of Jehovah's Witnesses, what possible difference would it make to you what it is we might be teaching at any moment in time? Mormons, for example, believe that one must earn God's grace through repentance and their never sinning again. However, the Mormon's doctrine of repentance doesn't disturb Jehovah's Witnesses since do not believe repentance alone and never sinning again to be a possible for human beings that were sold into bondage to sin and death.

    Rather, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that we are saved through our exercising faith in the ransom provision, provided we conform to the conditions salvation is offered: Having an accurate knowledge of Jehovah and Jesus Christ, faith in Jehovah and his Word, recognition of the operation of God's spirit, repentance and baptism.

    The effect is that when we need to explicitly trust God, we can't because he can't be trusted on what has been recorded in [scripture]. It also shows immense disrespect for Jesus, who told us not to be concerned. The Living Bible puts it even more pointedly that the NWT: " "The Father sets those dates...and it is not for you to know". Jesus' prophecy at Matt 24:34 came true when the generation he spoke to saw the destruction of Jerusalem approx 37 years later. He never misled his followers with clever semantics or [etymology] - it was just not his nature.

    Actually, quoting from the Living Bible, you would find that, in context, Jesus' response that you just quoted in your post from Acts 1:7 was not something that Jesus said to discourage his followers from being concerned with dates, as you have said here. In saying this you would be distorting Acts 1:6, 7, which passage I now quote (NLT):

    So when the apostles were with Jesus, they kept asking him, "Lord, has the time come for you to free Israel and restore our kingdom?" He replied, "The Father alone has the authority to set those dates and times, and they are not for you to know."

    Contrary to what you would accuse Jehovah's Witnesses of doing, we do not seek to mislead anyone using clever semantics or etymology. I'm not clear on why it is you mention "etymology" here, but maybe you'll explain why you did so since no one has denied that a "generation" cannot be defined as a "period of time." I also would like to know how any of what Jehovah's Witnesses believe or teach would be tantamount to our demonstration of "immense disrespect for Jesus." Now I don't know that you will respond to this post, but if you should decide to do so, please don't bother with an attempt to bluff your way through my questions. I'm not the one that will fall for the ol' okey-doke, and if you should evade any of my questions in your response, you can trust me when I tell you that I won't fail to notice.

    I'd really be interested in learning why someone that is not one of Jehovah's Witnesses would be so concerned about what Jehovah's Witnesses believe or teach others, that is, again, assuming that you are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses.. I've love to read your answer to this question.

    One thing is true, the WTBS in their disobedience of God and Jesus [fulfill] the absolute truth at Deuteronomy 13:1-3, paraphrased, "if it does not come true, don't listen to them"

    Well, I do believe I get your meaning, and so I'm assuming here that you are aware of one or more prophetic predictions that has been published by the WTS. That being the case, I don't know when the WTS has ever proffered a prophetic prediction of any sort, but assuming that you now of one or more of such, I'd like to read it. Please post at least one of these prophetic predictions to which you refer as well as the source of the said prediction. Otherwise, I'm going to consider you to be someone for whom repeating a false rumor poses no real problem.

    @djeggnog

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