How are you?
How are you?
I'm well. I'll be honest I do not come here that often.
Yes, debator, they have that in writing, but the elders do everything they can to get the wife to stay and often do not believe her about the abuse. My mother was one situation where that happened. I have seen up to the current day...elders are men and figure the wife must have done something to trigger the abuse, as if there is any excuse to hit a wife. I still see elders tell sisters, that God hates a divorcing and makes the women feel that they have failed to be Christian wives if they leave. And it is worse if the husband is a jw. You can quote all you want but just as Jesus said about the Pharisees and scribes:
(Matthew 23:1-4) . . .Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. 3 Therefore all the things they tell YOU, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but do not perform. 4 They bind up heavy loads and put them upon the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger.
Your out-of-context scripture on Jesus specifically talking about Jewish leaders aside.
Official writing is our position as witnesses on these biblically drawn principles. If individual elders do no do this then that is on their personal conscience.
I think you are also mixing older cultures with newer ones.
In times gone by marriage was strongly part of society now it is being filtered out on the whole. People did not leave marriages lightly then as they do now.
You seem to use a lot of "this maybe what elders say" but then point out personal generalised wrongdoings from individual elders (that are not our written policy drawn from the bible and it's principles) as things to cite against witnesses as a whole. but isn't this just supporting witnesses viewpoint that individuals can still act imperfectly against Bible principles?
debator, except for my husband, I have never found an elder over the last 45 years that let an abused sister know that she could leave and still have a good relationship with God, they all said that 1) it would be hard financially, 2) it would damage the children spiritually, 3) and it would set her up for immorality (as if a woman wants to have sex willingly with a man that beats her). My husband even had elders come after him and cancel out all the "spiritual" advice he had given to her about protecting herself and her children, these elders telling her she had to stay. We had 2 sisters almost shot at gunpoint because the elders in their congregation told them to stay, even after their husbands were arrested by the secular authorities, And this is not isolated.
I take it you are not a man so would hardly be in a position to know what difficult times many women in the organization have gone through since they are afraid to say anything worried they would be labeled a bad wife, a bad mother, a bad Christian.
I don't think being beaten to a pulp by your husband is taking marriage "lightly" if you choose to leave. If a man beat me up on the street, he would be arrested, I would not be told I should move in with him and make him a better man and have sex with him.
So if you want to take over this thread, please don't, take your debates to your own thread; I'm sure your fellow debators or supporters will be happy to follow you there. We'll agree to disagree.
I don't really have anything add than what's already been said. Just wanted to mention, the song about women that preceded the WT study was so beyond horrendous. In my life I don't think I've heard anything quite that bad. The audience at my hall kinda gave up on it. Lyrically, musically, it was just trash, and depressing to listen to and sing.
"the head of every man is the Christ"
Umm, according the the New New World Translation, this should read:
""the head of every man is the Body of Elders, the head of the Body of Elders is the Governing Body, the head of the Governing Body is Christ"
Please don't rewrite my words for me.
I know of a few sisters that have separated due to abuse and had the elders support in this. The facts on the table are that in support of Bible principle separation is allowed when a wife is abused. Mistakes have been made by individual elders and as with all these situations the mistakes are remembered easily but not when things work out.
I will not judge witnesses on hearsay. You implied abused women could not separate in your first post I simply posted the facts that they are allowed to separate.
You implied abused women could not separate in your first post I simply posted the facts that they are allowed to separate.
No one here (except the other trolls) are going to take your word as fact when they have experienced otherwise. Nice that you try to imply that Blondie is lying.
Thanks, mrsjones. I appreciate your words; debater, remember I told you to take this to another thread. So end it here.