Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-11-10 WT Study (WOMEN SUBMIT)

by blondie 68 Replies latest jw friends

  • blondie

    changeling, good point, headship was a result of imperfection. When all humans are perfect, will those layers of heads be necessary?

    Woman went from completing man to being dominated by him.




    Non-anointed men on earth (elders)

    Non-appointed men on earth

    male children


    female children

    Originally it was a direct speaking relationship between Adam and God, no go-betweens. Even Jesus (and the anointed) turns over his kingship to God.

  • blondie
    You have to stay with the monster for the sake of the children??? What child is in an healthier environment where his/her mother is being beaten up bodily, verbally, mentally??? All that is doing is creating a sick role model for the child so when they grow up they will act out on their mate just the same way...or the little girls will think that it is "normal" to be victimized.

    Good points, tiki. I grew up in an abusive household and I was afraid that I would choose an abusive bastard like my father. Fortunately, I matured and healed and found a great guy.

    This is a case where the WTS tends to talk out of both sides of their mouth. They will say that a woman does not have to stay but.........there are so many "good" reasons to stay. My mother finally left my father but not before she checked with the elders to make sure she wouldn't be df'd. She was more afraid of that than the abuse of her children.

  • blondie


    What happens when he makes a mistake? Does she have to go along with, and support, the mistake when she could have fixed it?

    The WTS say that the wife should let her husband make the mistake rather than point out a better way, because she would be usurping his headship.

    *** w95 9/15 p. 21 Godly Families of the Past—A Pattern for Our Day ***Interestingly, such women of faith as Sarah, Rebekah, and Rachel also exerted significant influence in the family. Although they were submissive to their husbands, they were not restrained from taking the initiative when it was appropriate and necessary. For example, Exodus 4:24-26 tells us that when Moses and his family were going to Egypt, “Jehovah [“Jehovah’s angel,” Septuagint] got to meet him and kept looking for a way to put him [Moses’ son] to death.” Evidently, Moses’ son was in danger of being executed because Moses had failed to circumcise him. Zipporah took swift action and circumcised her son. Consequently, the angel let go of him. Christian wives today can also take the initiative when the situation makes this appropriate.

    ---------------------but then the WTS says

    *** w73 7/15 pp. 434-435 par. 17 Seek God While He May Be Found ***Overstepping a boundary often means an invasion of the rights of others. In this instance, first Eve invaded the rights of her husband respecting headship, taking the initiative into her own hands.

    ----------------------but then

    *** g82 8/8 p. 8 “Surviving” the First Year of Marriage ***Some wives complain that their husbands fail to take the lead, to “carry on as men.”

    *** fl chap. 4 p. 43 par. 8 A Husband Who Gains Deep Respect ***On the other hand, instead of abusing headship, some husbands abdicate it. They pass all the decision-making over to their wives. Or, while telling the wife ‘not to rush them,’ they procrastinate so much that family interests suffer.

  • blondie
    Jesus had unattached women in his entourage; unattached women were viewed as whores in his day. Paul said that in Christ, there was no Jew or Greek, no male or female. The women mentioned by Paul were likely the spiritual leaders of the house churches he mentions.
    Ah, but the WT, like Blondie so reliably reminds us, LOVES to go back to the OT for examples, because the freedom that Jesus gave his followers is just too scary for them.

    pistoff, so many good points but the above resonates with me. It was the fear of living in a community in the new world where women on earth were still denigrated, made me examine if I really wanted to be there. Yes, the WTS loves the OT, full of rules, the same rules Christ supposedly nailed to the stake/cross. They have been carefully rebuilding a jw Talmud that they expect will survive as a basis of their new system. When I first realized how women were property in the bible, it was a big step out the WT door.

  • blondie

    hadit, such verve!

    But do remember there are men out there who cherish and love their wives, look for their advice. The more secure a man is, the less he has to lower his wife's status.

  • blondie


    "Willingly, laboring, glad to do your part. Modest, your bearing, submissive is your heart. "

    Those same qualities are required of men. Of course they like to define what a woman's "part" is. Aren't men supposed to be modest and submissive?

  • blondie

    Hey booby,

    Yikes! more adding to the scriptures in that little tidbit. "a divorce that has no scriptural basis" can't squeeze that outta Malichi

    And the tidbit they leave out is that this only applied to Israelite wives....that Israelite men sent their non-jewish wives and children away without any provisions to take care of them (just like Abraham did the Hagar and Ishmael).

    (Ezra 10:43-44) . . .. 44 These all had accepted foreign wives, and they proceeded to send away wives along with sons.

    *** w06 1/15 p. 20 Highlights From the Book of Ezra ***

    10:3, 44—Why were the children put away along with the wives? If the children had stayed behind, the likelihood that the dismissed wives would return on account of them would have increased. Moreover, little children generally require the care of their mother.

    ------------I asked then if they were applying Malachi to Christians, did that mean that people who became jws had to send away their non-jw mates and children?

  • blondie

    Hi jam,

    The important thing is that neither dominate over the other and think that responsibilties are gender-based. If you both agree that she is best at handling finances, go with it. I handle it at home mostly because my husband handles money all day at his work and wants a break.

    Just remember if you are married or when you get married, your spouse is your best friend, the one you have fun with, the one you cry with when things are bad, the one you share joy with.

  • just n from bethel
    just n from bethel

    At the convention (district) this week this WT was covered in the summary. At the end of the of talk the older brother concluded by saying that wives and sisters were a valuable resource for the brothers. And I kid you not - his last statement was "Brothers - tap that resource!" I almost peed my pants - lots of snickers and laughing.

  • debator

    God, the Originator of marriage, designed it to be a permanent union. But is there any Scriptural reason for a person to divorce his or her mate—and one that would allow for the possibility of remarrying? Jesus addressed this matter by declaring: "I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery." (Matthew 19:9) Sexual infidelity by a mate is the only ground for a divorce that will allow the innocent mate to remarry.

    In addition, the Bible's words at 1 Corinthians 7:10-16, while encouraging marriage mates to stay together, allow for separation. Some, after trying very hard to preserve their marriage, feel they have no choice but to separate. What can be acceptable Scriptural grounds for such a step?

    One is willful nonsupport. When getting married, a husband assumes the responsibility of providing for his wife and children. The man who willfully fails to provide the material necessities of life "has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith." (1 Timothy 5:8) So separation is possible.

    Another is extreme physical abuse. So then, if a mate physically abuses his wife, the victim may separate. (Galatians 5:19-21; Titus 1:7) "Anyone loving violence [God's] soul certainly hates."—Psalm 11:5.

    Another ground for separation is the absolute endangerment of a believer's spirituality—one's relationship with God. When a mate's opposition, perhaps including physical restraint, has made it impossible to pursue true worship and has imperiled the believer's spirituality, then some believers have found it necessary to separate.*Matthew 22:37; Acts 5:27-32.

    However, if divorce is pursued under such circumstances, one would not be free to enter a new marriage. According to the Bible, the only legitimate ground for divorce that permits remarriage is adultery or "fornication."—Matthew 5:32.

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