Help with another 607 vs 587 question............

by thraxer68 106 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  scholar

  garyneal

  Post 1391

  Details of the Return are found at 2 Chronicles 36:22-23 and Ezra 1:1-3:6. Such narrative gives a complete account of the history and chronology for the return to Jerusalem from Babylon.

  That is a matter of opinion that 609 BCE began the dominance of the Babylonian World Power for other scholars would prefer 605 BCE.Both dates of 609 and 605 BCE are unsuitable candidates for the beginning of the seventy years because these dates are simply too 'fuzzy' to be of any value historically.

  scholar JW
• 

  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  "...simply too 'fuzzy' to be of any value historically."

  I assume that by fuzzy historical value, you are referring to Chuck Russell's Studies of the
  great pyramid measurements of Smyth that "proved" 1914.

  
• 

  isaacaustin

  Fuzzy?? Scholar sounds like the only thing fuzzy is your equilibrium.
• 

  garyneal

  scholar

  Post 1889

  Details of the Return are found at 2 Chronicles 36:22-23 and Ezra 1:1-3:6. Such narrative gives a complete account of the history and chronology for the return to Jerusalem from Babylon.

  Great, but what these passages do not say is that the 70 years ended at the time that they returned and began rebuilding the temple in Ezra 3:1-6. This is yet another fail and garyneal is forced to go back on the previous assertion that the 70 years ended when Babylon was capture by Cyrus the Great, the king of Persia, in 539 B.C.E. as previously shown by secular historical information and by scripture.

  Jeremiah 25:8-14 (New International Version)

  8 Therefore the LORD Almighty says this: "Because you have not listened to my words, 9 I will summon all the peoples of the north and my servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon," declares the LORD, "and I will bring them against this land and its inhabitants and against all the surrounding nations. I will completely destroy [a] them and make them an object of horror and scorn, and an everlasting ruin. 10 I will banish from them the sounds of joy and gladness, the voices of bride and bridegroom, the sound of millstones and the light of the lamp. 11 This whole country will become a desolate wasteland, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

  12 "But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians, for their guilt," declares the LORD, "and will make it desolate forever. 13 I will bring upon that land all the things I have spoken against it, all that are written in this book and prophesied by Jeremiah against all the nations. 14 They themselves will be enslaved by many nations and great kings; I will repay them according to their deeds and the work of their hands."

  ---

  That is a matter of opinion that 609 BCE began the dominance of the Babylonian World Power for other scholars would prefer 605 BCE.Both dates of 609 and 605 BCE are unsuitable candidates for the beginning of the seventy years because these dates are simply too 'fuzzy' to be of any value historically.

  Garyneal is aware that some prefer 605 over 609 and feel that the 66 years between 605 and 539 can be rounded up to 70 years. Since both of these dates are so 'fuzzy,' garyneal wonders how the year 537 B.C.E. for the end of the 70 years is not fuzzy when scripture makes it clear that the king of Babylon will be punished at the end of the 70 year period and history records Babylons capture in 539 B.C.E.?

  Of course, there is also the question of why some scholars prefer 605 over 609, could this be because that is the year Nebuchadnezzar ascended to the throne in 605 B.C.E.? Do celebrated WT scholars agree with this?
• 

  scholar

  garyneal

  Post 1400

  The referred passages follow on from after the seventy years because in context Ezra 36: 22 immediately follows on after the fulfilling of the seventy years as described in verse 21.

  It is impossible for the seventy years to end in 539 BCE because in that year the Jews were still in Babylon and you are quite incorrect in claiming that secular historical information and scripture support this viewpoint. Celebrated WT scholars and myself would argue to the contrary.

  There is nothing 'fuzzy' about 537 BCE ending the seventy years for it is confirmed by Scripture and secular historical evidence.

  The King of Babylon was punished in 539 BCE but Jeremiah also foretold in that same text that Babylonia would be made desolate and that did not happen in 539 BCE.

  Celebrated WT scholars have shown a differend date for Neb's acc and first regnal year and does not agree with 605 BCE.

  scholar JW
• 

  Titus

  Celebrated WT scholars

  I must remember this title.

  Scholar, you and I are probably the only posters who suport 607 year. But.... you are boring! Really boring.
• 

  Black Sheep

  Scholar's Celebrated 537 isn't even fuzzy. Its flat out wrong and he has never taken AlanF's challenge and proved otherwise.

  Fact Jews Returned In 538 BC Kills Off Watchtower Chronology (1 ...
• 

  isaacaustin

  Pseudoscholar said:

  Celebrated WT scholars have shown a differend date for Neb's acc and first regnal year and does not agree with 605 BCE.

  scholar JW

  My reply: Ah, yes that is right. The WT in the Insight book uses the year 624 for Neb's first year as the Battle of Carchemish. They use a source to support their date, and insert their own date using brackets into the quote. Go to the source and you will find the date s 605BCE.
• 

  isaacaustin

  Pseudoscholar said:

  The King of Babylon was punished in 539 BCE but Jeremiah also foretold in that same text that Babylonia would be made desolate and that did not happen in 539 BCE.

  My reply:

  As Jeremiah said, the 70 years would end, then the King of babylon would be punished and the land desolate. The 70 years first had to end...oh they did in 539BCE when they were overtaken!
• 

  Titus

  Isaac:

  As Jeremiah said, the 70 years would end, then the King of babylon would be punished and the land desolate. The 70 years first had to end...oh they did in 539BCE when they were overtaken!

  That expression "the land desolate"..... what does it mean? You mean that the Babylonia or the Babylon were desolate?

  According to The Cambridge Ancient History, Palmyrene merchants founded a prosperous trading colony in Babylon in 24 A.D.

  So, as late as the first century A.D., Babylon was still not completely desolate.

  I mean, you are right -- "70 years would end, then the King of babylon would be punished and the land desolate". 70 years ended, and 500 years after that 70 years ended, Babylon was desolate.

  Anyway, this is boring debate.