by thraxer68 106 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
B the X
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/175650/17/70-years-3d-607
That link was too funny. I can see why scholar does not cite references to support his position. He would have to get into "biblical pyramidology" to support 607 B.C.E..
garyneal
Post 1378
But this is not what Jeremiah 25:12-14 says for the punishment against the King of Babylon, the nation and the land of Chaldea would only commence after the seventy years was fulfilled and this did not occur until the Jewish Exiles returned home in 537 BCE.
Your reading of Jeremiah 29:10 along with how it is more accurately rendered in the NWT is not inconsistent with the fact that by the time that the seventy years had ended right to the very month, the seventh month Ethanim, the Hews were right at home.
Another big problem that mitigates against 539 BCE ehding the seventy years is the problem of what year did the period begin and thus far the debate largely hinges on 609 or 605 but either date creates a number of obstacles rending the situation hopeless.
The proof that the seventy years ended in 537 BCE is found in Ezra, Daniel and Zechariah because of how these men described the nature of the seventy years as a period of desolation-servitude and exile. Josephus also confirmed this viewpoint as history.
Ann O Maly has done no such thing, she offers nothing new and simply rehashes the same tired old arguments that scholar has debunked many times over many years on this forum.
scholar JW
Fake scholar said: But this is not what Jeremiah 25:12-14 says for the punishment against the King of Babylon, the nation and the land of Chaldea would only commence after the seventy years was fulfilled and this did not occur until the Jewish Exiles returned home in 537 BCE.
My reply: Babylon was punsihed when the Medes overtook them 539BCE, at which point the 70 years ended. No rocket science there peudoscholar. Your 537 date is a guess, and an unlikely one at that.
Scholar you have been proven wrong on all these points ver andover and over by AlanF, Ann O'Maly and many, many others.
Nowhere in the Bible does it state that the seventy years ended in 539 BCE.
The bible does NOT state ANY date whatsoever.
No 607, no 538, no 589, no 666, no 358 or any other date you cna come up with.
The bible can't be used to "justify" any date since it doesn't state ANY DATE for ANY EVENT.
scholar
Post 1885
If Jeremiah 25:12-14 says that the 70 years ended when the Jewish Exiles returned home in 537 B.C.E. why is there no indication of this in the text? Also, even if we were to assume that you are somehow right on this, where in the Bible does it say that the Jews took two years to return home?
The only thing garyneal has to go by is what the text says and what historians say in regards to the dates. The only date that is in agreement with both secular scholars and celebrated WT scholars is 539 B.C.E., the year of Babylon's capture. If the Bible said somewhere that the Jews travelled for two years to return home after the capture, your assertion would be at least a tad more pallatable. However, this still does not negate the points made earlier in regards to when the punishment began and what God promise the Jews in Jeremiah 29:10.
If 537 B.C.E. can somehow be proven in Ezra, Daniel, and Zechariah please present the scripture reference so garyneal can look it up.
Another big problem that mitigates against 539 BCE ehding the seventy years is the problem of what year did the period begin and thus far the debate largely hinges on 609 or 605 but either date creates a number of obstacles rending the situation hopeless.
No debate there, just use simple mathematics, 539 B.C.E. - 70 years = 609 B.C.E.. Garyneal does not see any obstacles here.
Garyneal is lol.
garyneal
Post 1383
The only indication of this is contained in the context of the previous verses, the reference made later in 29:10 but more importantly it is indicated by the phrase'when the seventy years have been fulfilled".
Nowhere does the Bible state the length of time of the journey home but it certainly indicates that it took some months and that they had returned home by the seventh month of 537 BCE which is also endorsed by scholarship.
The circumstances of the return are more described in the last chapter of 2 Chronicles and the earlier chapters of Ezra and this serves as the basis for the chronology of the Return.
The problem of 609 BCE is that nothing happened in that year, it does not enjoy wide support by scholars for the start of the seventy years and for many other reasons it must be rejected accept for its accuracy as to arithmetic. If you add 539 to 70 then you get a sum of 609.
scholar JW
Oh dear, I've been away a while and who do i see, like a blast from the past, it's pseudo-scholar!
OK, I'll bite.
Perhaps scholar can elaborate on this comment:
Ezra was a historian
Really? What is the criteria for a historian? Is that how he saw himself?
I always thought Ezra was a 'copyist' - that doesn't even make him a journalist let alone an historian!
So many assertations and yet not one shred of proof...... why don't you respond to Billy the X about the Pyramid connections?
Pseudoscolar said:
Nowhere does the Bible state the length of time of the journey home but it certainly indicates that it took some months and that they had returned home by the seventh month of 537 BCE which is also endorsed by scholarship.
My reply:
So the Bible gives no dates. It does not state the length of the journey home, nor the year. Yet pseudoscolar says that the Bible 'certainly indicates' that they had returned home by the end of the 7th month of 537BCE. Sounds like a WT mag.
scholar
Post 1887
Nowhere does the Bible state the length of time of the journey home but it certainly indicates that it took some months and that they had returned home by the seventh month of 537 BCE which is also endorsed by scholarship.
Where, where? Garyneal is beginning to suspect that you have no proof, not even scripture to back all of this up.
The circumstances of the return are more described in the last chapter of 2 Chronicles and the earlier chapters of Ezra and this serves as the basis for the chronology of the Return.
Can you be more specific?
The problem of 609 BCE is that nothing happened in that year, it does not enjoy wide support by scholars for the start of the seventy years and for many other reasons it must be rejected accept for its accuracy as to arithmetic. If you add 539 to 70 then you get a sum of 609.
According to isaac:
What happened in 609BCE? Babylon overtook Assyria and became the dominant world power.
This agrees with garyneal's research and while wikipedia may not always be the best source for facts, you can read it for yourself here.
