"Jesus did not die on the cross" (Gunnar Samuelsson)

by Titus 101 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    .... executed by the Romans.


    Pagan Romans????????

    Or non-Pagan Romans??????

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Getting impaled might be a helluva lot of fun, but it looks nothing like a crucifixion.

    Download entire De Cruce Libri PDF at Google Books

  • PSacramento

    I have never read ANYWHERE that impalement equalled being nailed to a post, NEVER.

  • donuthole

    Further it rather improbable that the sentenced would have had to lug a large pole to the execution site, rather they were yoked to the crossbeam and had to carry it to a stake or a tree already in place. This is consistent with the Bible description.

  • undercover

    Arguing whether Jesus died on a cross or stake is kinda like arguing about what God's name is...

    No one really knows.

    The JWs chose to market "Jehovah" as God's name so as to stand out from other "Christian" religions.

    The JWs chose to depict Jesus dying on a stake so as to stand out from other "Christian" religions.

    By proclaiming "Jehovah" in every other sentance and showing drawings of Jesus on a stake, it separates them from the thousands of other religions that all follow the previous traditions. This gives them exclusivity and with "some" evidence to support their claims, they can claim that they alone have the "truth" of the matter. To those inside the cult, this gives them validation of being in the right religion.

    But these are minor issues when talking about the claims of the WTS. Even if God's name is Jehovah, even if Jesus did die on a stake, these do not make up for the 100+ years of false prophecies and erroneous (and ever changing) doctrines.

    When someone is first doubting the "truth", these things may seem major - as you lurkers may be experiencing - but as time goes by you'll realize that it's not that major a thing when stacked up to the real damning evidence that proves without a doubt that the WTS is not God's channel on earth.

  • PSacramento

    For an average person to be nailed to a vertical stake, at a height that a spear woudl be needed to pierce the side and to raise a sponge up to their lips, the vertical post would have to be, lets see:

    average height of a male in those days was 5"5" maybe? with arms outstretched that would be another what? 2ft? and lets assume the legs were slighly bent, we get a overall height of maybe between 80 to 84 ", so lest go on the low end and say 80", just under 7ft, now add room for the block of wood over his head for the inscription, since it was in 3 languages lets make that another 12" and we have 92" of wood JUST for the body, arms and insctiption block, now add to that the enough height that a spear was needed lets say another 3ft, we have 128" or 10ft- 8".

    Now, that is what is OUT of the dirt and earth, you need at least a good 3 ft to hold that, if not more, but lets take only 3 ft and we have a post that is, minimal 13ft and 8" long.

    It would have to be AT LEAST a 6" SQ post and a 6x6 post is about 7 LBS per foot (7.35 to be exact) so that is a minimum weight of about 100lbs.

    Jesus probably weighted 140lbs maybe 150 and had been beaten and whipped and lost lots of blood.

    Well, are we doing the math here?

  • mindmelda

    I don't know, I wasn't there. *G*

    But, that's an overly literal translation of "staurus" and yes, if Christ was "impaled" then his death was quite different than even what the Witnesses teach.

    That means being run through with a large pointed stake, but usually after another form of execution, although there were sadistic and notable exceptions of people being impaled alive.

    Vlad the Impaler, the inspiration for Dracula, seemed to get a kick out of impaling his enemies alive and watching them wriggle for a while. ew....

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    It's like the Trinity, Creation etc. where you can waste your time debating all manner of stuff for hours on end when the real issue we should be hammering them on is honesty in their lighterature.

    De cruce libri III. By Justus Lipsius page 215 (page 245 of Google Books PDF)

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    keyser soze

    Why does it matter so much to JWs? That's the part I could never figure out about this debate.

    I think it's so they can make their claim about Christendom worshipping the cross. The truth is they idolize the torture stake more than anyone I know idolizes the cross.

    I love asking JWs what it means to be an enemy of the toture stake.

    Php 3:18

    For there are many, I used to mention them often but now I mention them also with weeping, who are walking as the enemies of the torture stake of the Christ,

  • Doubtfully Yours
    Doubtfully Yours

    Glad to hear this Titus. There is one of WT's doctrines that I really never questioned or researched on my own, just believed that they did their research and I went with it. Really glad to hear they're right about it.


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