You cannot live her life for her.You might as well bang your head on a wall repeatedly or ask a squash to recite love poems in Italian.Do what you can,but expect no gratitude.Sometimes,its just the way it is..Good luck,and dont let this mess YOUR life up.ok?
A terrible situation, I need all the help I can get
by lola28 34 Replies latest jw friends
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mrsjones5
What a sad sitituation and I think SA is right on the money.
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saywhat29
@PSac, I agree with you and if I come across as harsh that wasn't my intention. It's just that there hasn't been anything coming from this family *but* Love for this girl and her kids. I feel they give so much love, they cannot see when its hurting Roxy, the baby, and themselves. Of course she needs love to but it is not as if this girl doesn't know she can get it from this family. She knows exactly where to go to get love and/or anything else.
Maybe because I know teen mothers and I know that parenting the young infants usually fall upon the young mother and her family that makes me a little harsh in this regard but most do not make two more kids afterward. I know of one girl who foolishly did that, and that is because she is so in love with the child's father that she keeps making kids back-to-back with him. Both are kinda stupid and it all falls back on her because she can't even leave him to watch the kids... but at least she's above the age of 18 and can work.
Scully brought up excellent point as well; the girl is probably elligble for benefits and welfare if she applies in some form, so your family shouldn't be doing this by themselves. The father(s) do need to be arrested as that is pretty disgusting what they did to her. She needs al the help she can get, she needs love, and attention, but she also needs to be treated as the mother she his making herself out to be. Trying to assembole some childhood for a girl who has three people depending on her does a disservice to those kids; shielding her from the brunt of her responsibilities does nothing but makes it harder on her.
To Aguest, she's 15, not 10. And I'm young enough to remember 15 and knew a few girls with kids. She understands more than I think we can give her credit for. I mean... I just hope she gets the help she needs to get a job, an education, and take care of her kids. How would you go about establishing self love in her, go about getting her to understand her self worth? That's a lifetime goal for most people and coddling her won't do her any good. I understand she's young and immature, but if she's still pulling the same crap at 18 (and she will people.. .if this doesn't end she will and will possibly be onto child no. 4) I know so many teen mothers who bust their a$$ for their kids left and right at McD's slinging burgers, going down to wait in lines for food stamps and gov't offices for vouchers, fighting for paternity test just so they could get 40 or 50 dollars from their deadbeat fathers- I really don't have that much... I don't know empathy for a girl who keeps making kids and using other people.
So that's ultimately where I come from. You see 15 year old girl with three kids abused by her circumstances who probably hates herself; I see 15 year old girl with three kids who hates herself and is using people and not doing what she needs to do in her shitty situation.
Its sad she's there; its sad she doesn't have the support system she does from her bio family, and its sad that she feels it necessary to escape through sex with older men who won't/cant help her. We get that it's sad and all agree.
Now what should happen is the issue. Get her away from those men or anyone willing to knock her up introduce her to the pill, take her down to get those kids tested for paternity test and if any of her kid's athers have jobs apply for child support so even if they don't have one now in the future if they ever get one, he'll still have to pay 'back child support'. If she won't agree, cut off money and just buy her the supplies and items she needs. Get her what she needs to gain skills and get a job somewhere, anywhere, and apply for vouchers and benefits. But do not make her the person in control of this; in this instance, yes she is the child and you are the adult footing the bill.
This child's uterus is running the whoole show; that should end. Like now.
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lola28
Thank you all for your thoughts! I struggle a lot with what to do, as many of you have said sometimes it feels like by helping her we are enabling her behavior, she has us for free babysitting, help with food, clothes, nappies and my mom is like a cab for her, she will call at 11 pm and sometimes midnight to see if my mom can drive her somewhere the next day and if told that my mom has a full day she pouts and won’t bring the babies over.
The other part of me says that the babies should not suffer and do without, it’s not their fault that they were born to someone who is totally unprepared to be a mother, the thought of them lacking basic things like clean clothes, food, medical care is more than I can deal with. What if we cut her off and she leaves the kids with someone else and something happens to them? What if Nathan goes to bed hungry? It’s thoughts like these that won’t leave my head!
Also, she refuses to go to school, when social services got involved after Nathan’s burn incident she was told that she had to go back to school if she wanted to get him back and she went for a whole one week and then three times a week and then it was down to once a week until finally she just refused to go. She sleeps all day and I can’t tell you how often we get the babies and the first thing we do is give them a bath because they are dirty and their clothes is filthy.
I started the process of becoming a foster parent, I’ve taken finger prints, had a home inspection and they did the background checks on everyone that lives in the home, if something happens maybe they will allow us to have the babies, and sadly it think something will from what I’ve heard her boyfriend has been beating on her because she got pregnant again (he thinks it’s not his).
It’s funny, I’ve never been what anyone would call maternal, I’ve never been a big baby person but with these two you just get an overwhelming feeling of love and you want to do whatever you can to make sure that they are well taken care of but I’m also afraid that the more help she gets the less she will do for herself.
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PSacramento
She also seems to be clinically despressed, there could be some mental issues there, perhaps bipolar.
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lola28
That's a good point PS!
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saywhat29
Lola28, from what you are telling us, you need to document when she drops these kids off, the condition they are in, her state of mind, etc. if she has bruises, docment it. if she's drunk, document it, if she says she doesn't want to watch them right now and goes off with her bf, document it.
Document everything. If you want to fight this legally, you need proof.; you cannot just show up and say she's a crappy mom. If they see three kids still breathing and in general good health, your case will be pushed to the bottom of the pile and you'll just be annoying nosey person.
The courts need to see a pattern . You need to document everything you can if you and your mother want to become foster parents to these kids. Like, I said, maybe I'm so skewed because I've seen girls her age do so much for their kids,hell sell their behind for their kids to have friggin' Jordans, that my bias against this girl is unfair because I'm not even thinking about the fathers. And that's sexist. She needs to find these guys and hold them accountable if possible. And more liekly, this guy needs to go to jail!
What you're trying to do- become a foster parent to kids with a bio mother who generally wants them and loves them very dearly is an uphill battle. That is really hard to do unless you are willing to spend a whole lot of money and have a good case. But with the court system, unless the kids are in extreme abuse- just remember that kids get returned all day to shitty parents after being taken from them because a child is bettter with their parents 'in general'- it is pretty hard thing to do.
You can do all this work and all she has to do is complete a 15-day 'Parenting Course' and you're back where you're started and whats worst she will have the option of not allowing you to even see the kids unless you continue to foot the bill (in the worst case scenario). If people could take away kids from sh^^t parents, maybe we'd have more well-adjusted adults walking around but we know that is not the case.
Like I said, you cannot use the children as an excuse to allow her to do anything and all things because she knows the power she has. "Nathan is hungry" is all she has to say and then there you are to bail her out of taking care of Nathan. Nathan is her responsibility. Nathan came out of her body, calls her momma, and wants her to take care of him. No offense, but even if that child is attached, Nathan more than likely expects his mom to be his mom/caregiver.
If she is that dependant on your family, you should take her to Social services and WIC and see what they can assist her with. And if she refuses to work, then i think you should document this and have her explain to a social worker what should happen. The system sucks but its the only one we have short of kidnapping the kids and moving to Mexico. If you can't help but give her things, like I said buy the items for her and expect her to pay back some of it and tell her its not free.
*shudders* How you stand to be around such a child and not whoop her silly is beyond me 'cause she needs that old school 'Big momma' beatdown. I don't hit girls but I know the number of a lot of girls who do hit girls... And sadly Roxy's own momma needs an old school big momma beatdown too.
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AGuest
To Aguest, she's 15, not 10. And I'm young enough to remember 15 and knew a few girls with kids.
I don't doubt that you know something about 15 year-olds, dear, SayWhat (peace to you!), but I am under the impression that she is 15 NOW, while on her THIRD child, which means (at least, to me) that she had at least one of them BEFORE she was 15. So, I'm thinking she didn't become a mom a 15 but well before. Unfortunately, the truth is that the simple acts of conceiving and birthing children does not automatically a "good" mom make, regardless of the girl's/woman's age.
She understands more than I think we can give her credit for.
I don't doubt that, but understanding isn't the issue here. I am sure she understands that taking advantage of others isn't right. I am also sure, though, that what she has SEEN others do along the same vein is playing a much bigger role I how she makes her choices as to what SHE should do (i.e., "like mother, like daughter"). All I'm saying is that perhaps if someone showed her DIFFERENT, she would DO different.
Now, you might say, "Well, isn't dear Lola showing her something different"? To that I would ask you: how would YOU feel if (1) it's obvious that your own mother doesn't really want you, but what she gets by having you (i.e., someone wrote that Roxy should be helped to get aid, etc. The reality of that is... ROXY IS A MINOR. Thus, ROXY CAN'T GET AID. Roxy's MOTHER can get aid FOR Roxy... and Roxy's children. Roxy's GUARDIAN can get aid FOR Roxy... and perhaps Roxy's children. But government benefits are NOT paid directly to minors, unless such minors are legally emancipated, which isn't usually granted before age 16/17, regardless of whether the minor has children. The other alternative would be if the minor was married. Otherwise, no benefits are paid directly to a minor)... and (2) you see that folks want your children... but not YOU? Roxy is 15 - do you really think she can "understand" why everyone wants her kids, but not her? Really?
I mean... I just hope she gets the help she needs to get a job...
At 15? With three kids? Just so you know, in many states, 16 is the legal working age and then ONLY if the person is enrolled in school AND only works part-time. Given that, I must ask... who will pay for the childcare while she goes to school (so that she CAN work)... and work?
an education...
Per dear Lola, Roxy isn't all that head up about going to school (which is another issue, entirely. I would have to wonder whether anyone's checked to see at what level Roxy reads, does math, etc. Being that she's been moved from pillar to post so often, it's HIGHLY likely that she's functionally illiterate, if not reading at a much lower grade level than her peers. If any of this is the case, then it's no wonder she doesn't "want" to go to school. She's out of her league there, unlike on the streets/at the hangouts - where there are those who are more "like" her (i.e., castoffs, rejects, abused, etc.)).
and take care of her kids...
I refer you back to the issue of Roxy's self-esteem (i.e., SHE can't care for someone she doesn't love. She can't love... if she doesn't KNOW love, at least on some minute plane) and situation (i.e., she's never been taken care of - how is the world is she supposed to know HOW to take care of anyone else? "Instinct"? Seriously? C'mon...)
How would you go about establishing self love in her, go about getting her to understand her self worth?
By taking care of her... and in doing so teaching her to take care of herself... from which she will learn to take care of her children. And while doing that (caring for her)... letting someone else take care of her kids (because it seems obviously that there are more who would be willing to step up and do that...)
That's a lifetime goal for most people...
Most, but not all... and I marvel that so many here have already decided that Roxy is decidedly in the least desirable category... simply based on dear Lola's perspective. Anyone know Roxy's???
and coddling her won't do her any good.
Coddling, no. Love, however, is not coddling. Coddling is easy - give 'em whatever they're asking for/demanding so they'll shut up and leave you alone. Then YOU don't have to "go through" so much. YOU don't have to feel "guilty." Coddling... is about YOU... not the one coddled. Coddling fills the needs... and soothes the conscience... of the coddler. Not the other way around.
Love, however, does not always say yes - however, it certainly does not always say no. Love says, well, let's take a look at what we have here... and considers the matter, what's the best interests are... for ALL... and then takes action. Is it TRULY best to take these kids away from their mother? I would venture to say that statistics say "not always," and that not only might there be permanent "damage" to Roxy, but to her kids. Yes, some kids get placed in foster care/adopted and "life" gets better - turns out great. For some, just the opposite occurs.
I understand she's young and immature...
Do you, truly?
but if she's still pulling the same crap at 18... (and she will people
Now, see, I would be of the mind... and heart... that we would really have to wait until she turns 18 to know...
if this doesn't end she will...
I perceive you to mean that if dear Lola's assistance to Roxy doesn't end. I would take it a bit farther and say that if dear Lola's MANNER of assistance of doesn't end, you could well be right. I would also say, however, that if the MANNER of assistance CHANGES, it could well end. Indeed, Roxy's life COULD change...
and will possibly be onto child no. 4)
Possibly. I guess I'm just not the kind of person who would give up so easily on a 15-year-old. Heck, not even an 18 year old. 28, well... I might. Depends. (No WONDER so many of the young of this country are such a mess...)
I know so many teen mothers who bust their a$$ for their kids left and right at McD's slinging burgers...
And most of them have mothers... who help them with the children and/or who they live with. I don't get the sense that Roxy has either of those... ummmm... privileges.
going down to wait in lines for food stamps and gov't offices for vouchers...
Not at 15, dear SayWhat. You should check with these mothers - I PROMISE you, not ONE of them is 15...
fighting for paternity test just so they could get 40 or 50 dollars from their deadbeat fathers...
You seriously believe a 15-year-old (1) knows to fight for a paternity test; (2) HOW to fight for a paternity test; (3) how to even APPLY for or to fight for a paternity test; (4) how to PAY for a paternity test, (5)... (6)... etc., etc...
I'm not sure you live in the REAL world of teenage moms, dear SayWhat. I think you live in the world of "If it was me/my child/the people I know... I/she/they would/wouldn't..." which is where MOST people in this country live... and really isn't... well, realistic, let alone truthful. MUCH, much closer to the fantasy world a lot of folks here think/say I live in...
I really don't have that much... I don't know empathy for a girl who keeps making kids and using other people.
Unfortunately, that's kind of obvious, dear one. But I don't think anyone expects you to have any. I certainly don't. You would have had to have gone through something similar to do so, had some closer frame of reference (you know, besides the teenage moms you know who would never have "allowed" their circumstances to become this grave). However, I don't think having a little SYMPATHY for her situation (well, at least the situation that CAUSED her situation... i.e., her mom, momma's babies' daddies, her dad (?), her babies' daddies, etc.)... is too much to ask...
So that's ultimately where I come from.
Yes, I totally understand.
You see 15 year old girl with three kids abused by her circumstances who probably hates herself...
I do. I marvel, too, though, that you can't see that...
I see 15 year old girl with three kids who hates herself and is using people and not doing what she needs to do in her shitty situation.
Yes. I can see how you would see it that way: "it really is all her fault... she's 15, for god's sake... and so, way too old to be a "victim", by god!" Yes, I really can see how you... and a whole lot of folks... would see it that way...
Its sad she's there...
It is...
its sad she doesn't have the support system she does from her bio family...
It is...
and its sad that she feels it necessary to escape through sex with older men who won't/cant help her...
It is...
We get that it's sad and all agree.
Yes, but you stopped short of stating the obvious, haven't you: it's sad... but not our problem. Right? But I have to ask: then why respond at all?
Now what should happen is the issue.
Yes. Now.
Get her away from those men or anyone willing to knock her up introduce her to the pill...
And may I ask: you suggest that be done how, exactly? Keep in mind, kidnapping is a crime. False imprisonment is also a crime. How would you suggest one "get her away" from those men? Get a restraining order against them so he/they can't come near her? I am willing to bet that won't work, either...
take her down to get those kids tested for paternity test...
Okay, see, I'm thinking one would have to WIN HER TRUST... AND convince her of the BENEFIT of doing this... before one could just "take her down" and get her to do anything of this nature. Which means, to ME, also informing her of the potential consequences of doing it - for example, that boyfriend may never speak to her... or want to see his kid(s)... again... which, to a mature, responsible mother, shouldn't be a concern, of course, but we're talking about a 15-year-old who's never really known love and so not telling HER the reality of this may just cause this particular part of the "program" to backfire on whoever was attempting it)...
and if any of her kid's fathers have jobs apply for child support so even if they don't have one now in the future if they ever get one,
he'll still have to pay 'back child support'...
Assuming, of course, that (1) she'll even say who they are/he is; (2) she knows who the father(s) is/are; (3) he/they can be found; (4) he/they're not someone currently sleeping with her mother (or someone else that will result in all hell breaking loose even more in her pitiful life once that's out); (5) he/that WANT to be found; (6) if he/they don't, he/they're not abusive and liable to come after and harm her, (7)... (8)... (9)...
If she won't agree, cut off money and just buy her the supplies and items she needs.
Yes, that could be part of the plan, now. I mean, if she has what she needs, she shouldn't need money, yes, that's good...
Get her what she needs to gain skills and get a job somewhere, anywhere, and apply for vouchers and benefits.
Just like that, eh? Like, "Say, look here, Roxy! You need skills and you need to get a job somewhere... anywhere... and you need to apply for benefits?" If so, you have a LOT to learn about these things, dear SayWhat...
But do not make her the person in control of this...
Roxy... is NOT in control of anything here, dear SayWhat. Nothing. Not one thing. Apparently, not even her own body (contrary to what she may think), if dear Lola's last comments about the boyfriend are accurate (and I have no doubt that they are). It seems to ME that that IS the PROBLEM. And the SOLUTION is convincing this child that she not only NEEDS to get such control, but DESERVES to. THAT... is the ONLY thing that might stop her from making, let alone having... a 4th child...
in this instance, yes she is the child and you are the adult footing the bill...
Which is another part of the CHOICE (and it is a choice, dear one) that dear Lola needs to make: how MUCH of the "bill" to "foot," if anything.
This child's uterus is running the whole show;
No, it's this child's pain. That is what's "running" this show. Pain causes people to "thrash about" in all kinds of ways. It is one of our basic animalistic instincts. You get stuck in the eye, you run about, hand over eye, crashing into things. You get stuck in the heart... well, some people go so far as to jump off bridges to end that pain. Roxy is trying to assuage, if not somehow end, her particular kind of pain the only way she knows how - through her warped little sense of "love"... which SHE translates into men using her body. In her little mind, they only do it TO her because they "love" her. If they didn't "love" her, they wouldn't do it. When they stop doing it, they stop "loving" her. Unfortunately, the result of her misguided manner of dealing with all of this has been a disaster... and one that hasn't stopped at just her. Apparently, just like HER mother's "disasters" didn't stop with HER.
that should end. Like now.
Yes, well, simply SAYING that... indeed, wishing it... hoping it... DEMANDING it... will NOT make it so. You want it to end because it assaults your sense of "all that's right" in the world. It disturbs your world. But this isn't about you. It should end because Roxy and her children... and possibly dear Lola and her mom... will suffer even more if it doesn't.
These are real people with real lives, dear SayWhat... and real problems. Yes, someone needs to say to Roxy, "Girl, you would want to get over it" (whatever has happened to you to cause this train wreck), and you would want to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, get your ass in gear and take care of yourself and your kids." And that is what should be said.
The issue, however, is HOW to say this to someone like Roxy. Some things can't be said with words; they must be said... and shown... by actions.
I bid you peace, dear SayWhat... and perhaps a slightly larger heart, if you so wish it.
Your servant... and a slave of Christ,
SA, who is IMMEASURABLY grateful for the love... mercy... and COMPASSION... shown to me by the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, which I came to know through His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. Luke 7:36-50
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Lady Lee
I'm going to approach this from a different angle
Start documenting EVERYTHING with times and dates.
- what time she drops off the kids
- what time she picks them up
- the condition of the kids when she drops them off - take pictures before cleaning them up.
- if possible find out how long since their last meal
- are their clothes clean and in good repair - take pictures
- when does she ask for money or food or anything for the kids or herself - document what you give her
- what condition is she when she drops the kids off
- what condition is she when she picks them up - if possible take pictures - one time say you want a family picture as she drops them off an another time say you want to see how happy the kids are when she comes to get them but document each time - is she clean, well dressed - high, drunk
- if you go to where she lives what condition is her place. Do the kids have their own room? enough clothes, appropriate clothing considering the local weather conditions. Is it clean? dishes done or piled up? laundry done? garbage put out? bathroom clean?
- the issue of her going to school needs to be brought up and that she is in breach of that agreement
- anything else you can think of that upsets you - write it all down
Then get a lawyer for the kids! This is different than a lawyer for you. This lawyer is solely interested in the well being of the children. Some places these lawyers are free because they are working for minors. Check around for places where a lawyer will take this kind of case at a reduced rate if necessary.
Let the lawyer and the court know you are willing to be take custody of the children and she can have visitation - preferably supervised if drugs or alcohol is an issue.
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Lady Lee
I agree Roxy needs help but she clearly rejected that help when the issue of birth control cam eup. I suspect that any other "help" will be met with the same attitude - It's my life so leave me alone.
A person needs to want the help to cooperate. Roxy isn't there uet. You could let her know it is there is she ever wants to change her life but I doubt any amount of love or tale or even bribes will get her to change her ways. She is full of hormones and not enough wisdom to make those other choices even if they are presented to her.
In the meantime the babies need all the help they can get or you will see three (or more) lives ruined in the future