A terrible situation, I need all the help I can get

by lola28 34 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest
    Then get a lawyer for the kids! This is different than a lawyer for you. This lawyer is solely interested in the well being of the children. Some places these lawyers are free because they are working for minors. Check around for places where a lawyer will take this kind of case at a reduced rate if necessary.

    Greetings, dear LadyLee... and peace to you! I do not mean to diminish what you are saying here but what you're suggesting while coming from a place of true concern, I am sure, is really un-doable. For a couple/few reasons:

    1. Currently, dear Lola hasn't been approved to be a foster parent for these children. Even if she is, there is no guarantee she will be given these particular children (there's a LOT that depends on that, including input from Roxy and her mother, etc.). Even so, I can't see where she's indicated that the kids are already in the foster care system. Her statement "IF something happens, maybe they will allow us to have the babies..." indicates to ME that they are not. Not yet. And THAT can take some time, too. In the meantime...

    2. I also don't get the impression that Lola is actually family, as that word is defined by government. Roxy is Lola's sisters' step-dad's neice. I could be wrong but I don't see the BLOOD relation. If not, what does that mean? It means that Lola doesn't have "standing" to get/or request a lawyer for the kids. She isn't really even an "interested party." Her only option, therefore, would be to report her concerns to CPS (which she says she has already done, to no avail), or to the County (if and when the kids DO go into foster care, in which case attorneys will automatically be appointed for them).

    3. If the lawyers represented the kids, Lola couldn't pay them. Why? Because that would create a "relationship" between Lola and the lawyer, which would be a "conflict." Rather, the lawyer would have to be state-paid. To get a state-paid lawyer for the kids, again, the County would need to be involved.

    Let the lawyer and the court know you are willing to be take custody of the children and she can have visitation - preferably supervised if drugs or alcohol is an issue.

    Again, Lola doesn't have standing... to get a lawyer or talk to the court. Therefore, dear Lola can't "let the lawyer... OR the court"... know anything, including that she's willing to take custody. Indeed, it's highly likely that she wouldn't be given custody if some other blood relation stepped up (that is usually the County's first choice). Even if she was approved to become a foster parent, and even these kids' foster parent, the chances that she would speak with a lawyer are slim to none. With a judge is even slimmer. Rather, she would have to give her report to the Social Worker assigned to the children, who would work with and consult with the lawyer, who would give THEIR recommendation to the court.

    Dear ones, I GET it that everyone believes "something needs to be done." I GET the frustration: dear Lola's and everyone elses. What I'm NOT getting, however, is that any of the "well, I'd just slap her into righteousness" responders have really ever dealt with anything like this before. A Roxy... OR the foster care system. And if that is true, I must say that I can't see where giving UNREALISTIC advice is of any benefit.

    Dear ones, putting three more children into the U.S. foster care system is NOT going to make this problem better. It's going to make THREE MORE CHILDREN WHO HAVE CHILDREN BY THE AGE OF 15. At least. IF, however, someone goes back and NIPS THE PROBLEM IN THE BUD (i.e., get to ROXY... and turn HER around so that SHE, in turn, can possibly save her children from the same life SHE has undergone)... ALL of them might stand a chance. Including her.

    What everyone is forgetting is that even if dear Lola becomes a foster parent... and gets these very children... the likelihood that they will STAY with her, until they are 5, let alone 10... let alone 15... is... slim... to... none. They will, at some point, be returned to their mother (who will be in what status by that time? Better? Seriously?? Under these circumstances??) ... or passed on to some other foster home. The primary goal of foster care, after care of the children... is REUNIFICATION OF THE FAMILY. WHAT "family", I ask you... will these children ultimately end up with?? Unless dear Lola is willing and able to ADOPT them (through which ever greater hoops must be jumped, including an attempt to get the consent of all the parents involved, as well as other blood relatives, the first of which is highly unlikely, unless Roxy is currently on drugs or incarcerated; otherwise, they WILL go back to her)... she is merely only looking to put a band-aid on a wound that truly, TRULY... needs a full SUTURE. At least 10 stitches. Dear ones, a band-aid isn't going to stop this "infection."

    I think some here need to know this information, which I refrained from posting because it really shouldn't be about this. But:

    1. Minors... and Roxy IS A MINOR... aren't given WIC, Food Stamps, Medi-Cal, Section 8, CalWorks, TANF, AFDC, GA, or even Social Security/Supplemental Security. All of these are given... to the GUARDIAN(S) of such minors, on behalfof such minors. So, here, for example, since Roxy has children, whatever benefits SHE qualifies for as a result... GO TO HER GUARDIAN. Because SHE... IS A CHILD. And for now, it appears that her "guardian" is... HER MOTHER. Who... given what dear Lola has shares here... most probably takes the check, stamps, whatever (which is WHY she wanted Roxy to live with her), and uses them for her own benefit (and probably the current boyfriend/baby's daddy, whathaveyou). Which is why ROXY... has no money... and cannot care for herself or her children.

    2. IF, however, Roxy... and her children... lived with Lola... as their foster parent... not only would Roxy benefit from the EXAMPLE... but dear LOLA would receive funds from the state... to care for them all. For Roxy. And for each of her children. Then, dear Lola wouldn't HAVE to go into her own pocket to help this little family - the STATE would pay for it. And it ain't necessarly a small amount, either. In California, it's approximately $750... PER CHILD... PER MONTH. So, you have Roxy... who is a child... plus her two children... which equals $2,250. BUT... because little Roxy IS PREGNANT... there would be funds for that, too. SOOOooo... the State (for example, California) would pay dear Lola, as foster parent... about $1,100 for Roxy. With the two children, that's $2,600 a month. BUT... that does NOT include... FOOD STAMPS... WIC... and MEDI-CAL... which (in California), would be approximately $800 (food stamps)... $400 (WIC)... more... and, well, you can't measure the value of the medical/dental.

    Ah, nevermind. I guess it's much easier to say "I say, look after the babies, dear Lola, and let Miss Roxy fend for herself." Sounds to me, though, like that's been the problem all along: no one cared enough about the child, Roxy, to fend FOR her. Even now. Nope. She's done in... "tainted" goods. Ain't no more salvation for her. Well, it looks to ME likes she gets THAT... if nothing ELSE... and so she's doing the best she can... to fend for herself.

    And, again, it's a disaster. And it will continue to be, for probably several generations more. Her mother is a "walking disaster," and she's headed that way, if she hasn't already arrived. I don't believe she has. But if no one convinces HER that she hasn't... her children are 99% likely to become walking disasters, too.

    But, then, that's how it should be, right? Because, of course, we AREN'T, after all... our brothers' keeper, are we?

    Well, I'm just going to have to bid you all peace and, if possible, larger hearts. Because the Roxy's of this world... and their children... need it. And as a result, so do we. Because their "disasters" really do affect us all, sometimes catastrophically... sooner or later. One way or another.

    A slave of Christ,


  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee


    We clearly have different perspectives on this and that is OK. The more ideas Lola gets the better.

    I think there are worse things than getting these kids into the system. Roxy isn't going to listen to Lola or anyone else. She does seem to be a bit scared of the social workers who told her to get her butt to school or else. Well the "or else" didn't happen and Roxy now thinks she can do what she wants and to hell with the kids.

    Whether Lola gets the kids or not isn't the issue. It would be nice since the kids already know her but I too doubt it is going to happen. What is important is that these small children and still hopefully very innocent children aren't given the childhood that Roxy got. Roxy is important. Don't get me wrong. But she is a stubborn teen who is going to do what she wants and the more people try to tell her what to do the more she will do the opposite. Meanwhile the babies are suffering.

    Protect the children first. THEN deal with Roxy. If she wants to get her life straightened out she will. If not then the kids are better off without her.

    Sounds hard? Yup but when it comes to the safety of innocent children and babies I'm going to be on their side over a teen regardless of what she has been through in life.

  • AGuest

    I get where you and some others here are coming from, dear Lady Lee (peace to you!), truly I do: you believe that Roxy is merely "a stubborn teen who is going to do what she wants." A teen rebel. And given the teens of this country, I totally understand that. I got that, too; however, I did not get just that. I got that Roxy is also probably a "silent lamb"... possibly from a very young age and, possibly, not just due to the oblivion of her mother, but possibly even at her mother's behest. You'd be surprised at what some women will do... or give... to "please" their husbands/boyfriends/lovers/pimps, whathaveyou.

    I personally can't see how we can have pity and compassion for some of such lambs (i.e., the ones that either haven't let what happened to them destroy their lives... or the ones that give an outward appearance that such hasn't/isn't but in truth are actually "closet" alcoholics, drug addicts, promiscuous, abusive, masochistic, depressed, mentally ill, etc., in order to "deal" with it).

    Roxy is and has been acting out. The question is why... and it appears to ME that not only has no one bothered to ask that question; indeed, it appears that no one even considered that there might even be a reason FOR such a question.

    EVERY teen that I know of... and I know quite a few... that acted out did so for a reason including, perhaps, that they were over-indulged (although, I know very few of such teens in the latter group. Most of those are just plain arrogant and condescending, like their overindulging parents). Most who act for reasons other than over-indulgence, however, were either ignored, neglected, abandoned, and/or even abused by their parent(s)/caregiver(s)... although not necessarily physically. Yet, mental , emotional, psychological, and SPIRITUAL disregard, neglect, abandonment, and abuse is just as rampant upon U. S. children as the physical kind; indeed, it's more so. So many "good" parents believe they are "doing right" by their children because, well, they go to work and put a roof over their heads, food on the table, and clothes on their backs - so, what more do they need? I would say a lot more. Just like they did from their parents before them.

    Children need attention... a feeling of well regard and sufficient esteem... and a sense of SECURITY... in ALL of the areas mentioned above (mental, emotional, psychological AND spiritual). And they need these MUCH more than they need designer clothes, unnecessarily expensive roofs, the latest SUV, etc.

    My suggestion to Lola was to consider that even if someone steps in and cares for the children... the oozing of this wound won't stop. Sure, it'll slow down... for a couple/few years. But these children will grow up, too... and at some point they will become angry - about growing up without their mom and/or dad. And they're going to have everyone to blame: mom, dad, grandma... and the people who took them away from their mom. Anybody who had anything to do with where there lives ultimately "had" to end up.

    And then... they will act out.

    So that rather than having the one person acting out now, there will be 3-4 for more acting out in about 12-15 years... if not sooner. For a total of five more lives down the toilet.

    How do I know? We only need to look at the example that is Roxy herself: her mother is a "walking disaster" and now, so is she. Her children will also become walking disasters IF THE CYCLE IS NOT BROKEN. Roxy is still young enough for that to happen. If, that is, someone can get to HER (if not the dad(s) as well, but that's another story entirely...). Perhaps THEN, the entire family can be "saved"... and the cycle ended.

    It does not matter if children are taken from "bad" parents to go live with "better" folks. So long as those parents are alive... and have ANY access to those children... and Roxy will have access, as will her mother and perhaps the boyfriend... the cycle won't change. Because it is the RARE child... even if abused... who will turn fully away from a parent... and from imitating a parent. Even if they HATE that parent (which most in cases like this do), they will still love that parent. And even if they hate what that parent does... in order to reconcile the dichotomy they will take on some of that parent's traits. Unfortunately, more often than not that turns out to be primarily the "disaster" part.

    But, again, I totally understand where you're coming from. You have great compassion for those children, which is to be greatly commended. I am only suggesting Lola consider having a little more... enough to include the child-mom, Roxy, as well.

    Again, I bid you peace.

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,


  • ziddina

    Every time the kids/babies show up at your house, PHOTOGRAPH their condition - after "Roxy" leaves, of course...

    EDITED... Whoops!!! Lady Lee already said that...

    If you can video "Roxy's" condition, without raising suspicion, that would be good, too... Even better if you can get video of her with her "boyfriend", or her mother's "boyfriend", whomever he is...

    TAPE-RECORD every phone conversation you have with "Roxy" regarding the kids, her pregnancies, whatever... I know that, in most cases, recordings are not allowed in court, but it would still be nice to have some recorded evidence of her attitudes, names of men in her/her mother's life, plus the recordings might help you to sort out what is going on in "Roxy's" life...

    I agree with those who stated that "Roxy" may have been physically raped... She has most certainly been "raped" in the statutory sense...

    I wonder whether her mother has "Roxy" turning "tricks" in order to supply "Mumsy's" drugs...

  • GLTirebiter

    I'll add something that hasn't come up yet. Go to court to establish paternity get child support! The children are the responsibility of both parents, and from what Lola said I see no signs the children's father provide any support at all. It's time for that "over 18" boyfriend to get a job, and started living up to his responsibilities. Try to convince Roxy that this is in her best interest and her children's best interest.

    I agree that you should document anything and everything that could be a sign of neglect or abuse, and report it to the proper authorities. This is not only for the childrens' sake, but also to protect yourself. If the child is harmed and the police become involved, guess who she can try to blame: the babysitter, which means you and your mom!

    BTW, I think what Lady Lee was suggesting an Attorney Ad Litem, one appointed to represent the interests of wards of the court, etc. When and how that can be done depends on the local laws and courts, check with an attorney or call legal aid to see what can be done in this case.

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