I want to know whether 607 is valid or not.

by XPeterX 157 Replies latest jw friends

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    I don't get your problem, Titus. Could you be specific please instead of speaking in inferences?

    Jeremiah was referring to specific nations which are NAMED in the context of the entire prophecy. It was ALL THESE NATIONS who the prophecy applied to, NOT Jerusalem alone. And since when was Jerusalem EVER a nation? It's a city IN a nation.

    This is just ONE problem with the WT chronology. A Biblical problem that has nothing to do with archeology (which is evidently one of the evil Satanic sciences).

    Another HUGE problem with the WT chronology is that there is NOTHING in scripture to connect Nebuchadnezzar's Seven Times/Tree Chop dream with Jerusalem, its fall, the Messianic kingdom, the times of the gentiles, or anything other than what it was: Nebuchadnezzar's seven years of insanity.

    A reasonable person doesn't need anything else, IMO. All archeology disagrees with the WT. Reading Jeremiah's prophecy in context disagrees with the WT. And the WT fails to provide ANY evidence linking the seven times with ANY of the things they link them to, scriptural or otherwise; they merely assert that it is so.

    It is 100% BS. The Borg is somewhat correct about some things. They're not even remotely in the ball park on this. It's completely fabricated.

  • isaacaustin

    Absolutely Mad Sweeney.

    Dan 4

    Daniel Interprets the Second Dream

    19 Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, was dismayed for a while, and his thoughts alarmed him. The king answered and said, “Belteshazzar, let not the dream or the interpretation alarm you.” Belteshazzar answered and said, “My lord, may the dream be for those who hate you and its interpretation for your enemies! 20 The tree you saw, which grew and became strong, so that its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth, 21 whose leaves were beautiful and its fruit abundant, and in which was food for all, under which beasts of the field found shade, and in whose branches the birds of the heavens lived— 22 it is you, O king, who have grown and become strong. Your greatness has grown and reaches to heaven, and your dominion to the ends of the earth. 23 And because the king saw a watcher, a holy one, coming down from heaven and saying, ‘Chop down the tree and destroy it, but leave the stump of its roots in the earth, bound with a band of iron and bronze, in the tender grass of the field, and let him be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven periods of time pass over him,’ 24 this is the interpretation, O king: It is a decree of the Most High, which has come upon my lord the king, 25 that you shall be driven from among men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. You shall be made to eat grass like an ox, and you shall be wet with the dew of heaven, and seven periods of time shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will. 26 And as it was commanded to leave the stump of the roots of the tree, your kingdom shall be confirmed for you from the time that you know that Heaven rules. 27 Therefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable to you: break off your sins by practicing righteousness, and your iniquities by showing mercy to the oppressed, that there may perhaps be a lengthening of your prosperity.”

    Nebuchadnezzar's Humiliation

    28 All this came upon King Nebuchadnezzar.

    Let's nip the nonsense in the bud before even reaching 607BCE. Nebuchadnezzar has a dream....Daniel interprets it...verse 28 tells of its fulfillment on Nebuchadnezzar. Verse 28 says ALL this came upon Nebuchadnezzar- not some. There was nothing left unfulfilled about Nebuchadnezzar's dream that needed to be fulfilled at some later date.

    Every single link in this 7 gentile times (and by the way NOWHERE does the Bible mention 7 gentile times) requires a huge suppostion and leap of logic nowehre supported in the Bible.

  • trebor

    When Jerusalem fell is documented in the Bible at 2 Kings 25:8-9:

    "And in the fifth month on the seventh [day] of the month, that is to say, the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, Nebuzaradan the chief of the bodyguard, the servant of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem. And he proceeded to burn the house of Jehovah and the king's house and all the houses of Jerusalem; and the house of every great man he burned with fire."

    The nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar rule is when Jerusalem fell.

    What year is the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar?

    This can be deduced with the aid of referencing two of the Watchtower Society’s publications. The first publication is Insight on the Scriptures. On page 457 in Volume 2 under ‘Nabonidus’ it states the following:

    "Last supreme monarch of the Babylonian Empire; father of Belshazzar. On the basis of cuneiform texts he is believed to have ruled some 17 years (556-539 B.C.E.). He was given to literature, art, and religion."The second reference, the Watchtower Society's publication Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules on page 184 it states: "After reigning but two years King Evil-Merodach was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar. According to the inscriptions that have been found, this usurper of the throne spent most of his time in building operations and reigned four years. When he died, his son Labashi-Marduk, though not yet of age, succeeded him. He was a vicious boy, and within nine months he had his throat cut by an assassin. Nabonidus, who had served as Governor of Babylon and who had been Nebuchadnezzar's favorite son-in-law, now took the throne and had a fairly glorious reign till Babylon fell in 539 B.C."Take into consideration along with the above information that both Historical data and the Watchtower Society agree that Nebuchadnezzar ruled for a period of 43 years...

    Insight on the Scriptures, page 480 in Volume 2 under ‘Nebuchadnezzar’:

    "Nebuchadnezzarruled as king for 43 years"

    Now let’s gather the above information...

    539 B.C. = Year Babylon Fell

    Prior to the fall of Babylon, the history of its rulership is as follows: 17 years = Rulership of Nabonidus 1 year (9 months) = Rulership of Labashi-Marduk 4 years = Rulership of Neriglissar 2 years = Rulership of Evil-Merodach 43 years = Rulership of NebuchadnezzarDoing the math with the above facts:

    539 + 17 + 1 +4 + 2 + 43 = 606
    NOTE: We add here because we are tracing back the years of rulership. During B.C. years to go back in history you add years, to go forward in history you subtract years.

    Therefore, 606 B.C. would be the year Nebuchadnezzar starts to rule.

    Going back to our scripture in 2 Kings 25: 8, 9, it was during Nebuchadnezzar’s 19th year that Jerusalem fell.

    Doing that math: 606 - 19 = 587NOTE: We subtract here because time is progressing during Nebuchadnezzar’s reign. The years decrease not increase, as we are calculating B.C. years and not A.D. years.

    From the above, 587 B.C. would be the year Jerusalem fell.It’s plain to see that simply by using two of the Watchtower Society’s own publications along with two verses from the Bible, one can prove the teaching of Jerusalem fallen on 607 B.C. which Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught to be accurate by the Watchtower Society is a lie. It is a teaching to support their doctrine and interpretation of scripture.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    It isn't that the WT version breaks down; it is that it never even stands up in the first place. If you follow through the entire process of WT claims of this CHRONOLIGICALLY instead of piecemeal like the WT presents it, you wouldn't ever get past step one, let alone arrive at the WT conclusion.

  • isaacaustin

    Thanks Trebor. The WT itself disproves 607BCE.

  • AllTimeJeff

    I find the easiest method the best.

    Find one history book in any school or college that remotely suggests the date of Jerusalems destruction is 607 BCE. One.

    Why not? Because it didn't happen then.

    Start there. All JW's want to do is to create doubt in your mind, while selling other products of theirs. Their point isn't to prove anything except "Lets count backwards from 1914."

    Again, if it isn't taught in schools, or anywhere, except by JW's, who rely on that date, and then discourage anyone from doing independent investigation, that there answer is, "Trust us", well, trust at your own risk. Or to quote Reagan, "Trust but verify."


  • isaacaustin

    Exactly MS, 607 is a moot point. Nebuchadnezzar's dream was fulfilled totally in him, as clearly stated in Dan 4:28. It ends there.

  • dukefx

    607 is true if you assume the bible is true and inspired

    607 is false if you assume the secular evidence is true and the bible is false

    the arguments to make the secular evidence 'fit' with biblical chronology and prophecy have utterly failed, so it's a matter similar to evolution vs biblical creation, you believe in the bible, evolution is false, 607 is true.

  • isaacaustin

    hefty assertions dukefx...but baseless unless you can back them up.

  • JWoods
    so it's a matter similar to evolution vs biblical creation, you believe in the bible, evolution is false, 607 is true.

    What bible has 607BCE in it? I have never seen one.

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