I want to know whether 607 is valid or not.

by XPeterX 157 Replies latest jw friends

  • garyneal

    Once again, I think a the point all of us need to take away from all of this is that the only reason this whole subject gets discussed is because the Bible Students bought into Nelson Barbour's theories concerning the end of the world happening in 1914. They used pyramidology to back it up, and when 1914 did not bring about the end, their offshoot (Jehovah's Witnesses) eventually needed to do something about it. They latch onto the Gentile Times prophecy and counted backwards from 1914 to arrive at 607 B.C.E..

    To deal with the secular dates, they just take the 539 B.C.E. point of reference and count back 70 years as stated in the Bible and stand firm on the belief that Jerusalem was desolate for the entire 70 years. Since 539 minus 70 comes up to 609 instead of 607, they just say that it must have taken the jews two years to return after Babylon was captured in 539 (hence arriving at 537 B.C.E. for the return).

    So lets review:

    • 1914 was promoted by Barbour as the year that Armageddon was to occur.
    • Russell took this chronology and ran with it.
    • Russell also employed pyramidology to compute 1914, tying them together.
    • The events predicted in 1914 did not happen.
    • Doctrine was then readjusted.
    • 1914 becomes the beginning of the end and Christ's invisible return.
    • Pyramidology becomes a tool of Satan.
    • Now new 'evidence' must be presented to back up 1914.
    • The Gentile Times was used as this 'new evidence.'
    • They merely counted back 2520 years from 1914 and marked Jerusalem's destruction on that year.
    • Since that year did not fit the Bible's 70 year chronology in light of the 539 B.C.E. point of reference, WT apologist ASSUMED that it would take the Jews 2 years to return to Jerusalem from 539 to 537.
    • Now the Bible and the evidence fits to suit their own 1914 date.
    • Their doctrinal authority remains intact (at least for the sheeple who swallow all of this).

    That's how I see it in a nutshell. If any of my points are off, let me know.

  • JWoods

    I think that is a very clear and accurate rundown of this sorry 1914/607 JW mess, GaryNeal.

  • AudeSapere
    TD wrote: I've got this archived and could dig it out over the weekend. (Not that it would change the mind of anyone already convinced they know more on the subject than the experts do.)

    I'm interested in seeing the response.

    I think it would be a great reference for this subject on this board.


  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    One missed point. When they first went back 2520 years from 1914 they arrived at 606.

    Alan Feuerbacher explains it in detail here:


  • garyneal

    Mad Sweeney,

    True, they did forget that year zero did not exist when they originally counted back from 1914.

  • JWoods
    True, they did forget that year zero did not exist when they originally counted back from 1914.

    And notice that they changed the 606/607 date, not the 1914 date, because they were counting backwards from their 1914 adventist fixation.

  • garyneal


    Yes, even more proof that the Society was simply making the evidence fit their own conclusions. They began with the conclusions and made all evidence support the conclusions that they had already drawn.

    No scholar worth his salt would operate like that.

  • JWoods
    No scholar worth his salt would operate like that.

    Indeed. And notice also, that as far as Christ coming - 1913 or 1915 or anything else would have been just as good if you are going to say it was all "invisible" anyway.

    But they had to stubbornly have 1914 even if the historical facts and dates had to be juggled to make their wacko "backwards prophecy" add up.

  • undercover
    And notice that they changed the 606/607 date, not the 1914 date, because they were counting backwards from their 1914 adventist fixation.

    That was a clincher for me when I was muddling through the whole 607 vs 586/7 thing.

    1914 is the sum of the equation, the answer to the mathmatical problem. If you worked on a mathmatical problem and came up with an answer but then realized you calculated wrong, the sum changes, not the given parts...not the question or the problem.

    So if they calculated wrong and realized that they didn't account properly for the 'zero year' or lack thereof, then the sum of 1914 has to change to reflect the new calculation. But they didn't do that. They changed one of the givens in order to retain the answer they came up with previously (and wanted to keep).

    If you're in math class and the problem is 10 + 10 = ? and you want the answer to be 21 so you change the question to 10 + 11 = 21... turn that in to the teacher and see what grade you get...

    edited to add:

  • garyneal

    To expand on undercover's point, the Society held on so dearly to 1914 because it lined up with all of it's 'proofs' that convinced them that we are living in the last days. World Wars I and II had elements of tribulation period based on their interpretation of Revelations.

    Before 1914, the Society was predicting that the end would come and that the harvest would be complete.

    In 1914, WWI began and they must've believed that they were in what appeared to be the beginning of the battle of armegeddon.

    When the year 1914 ended and the present system did not end with it, the found themselves scrambling trying to figure out where they went wrong. Bear in mind that the date for end was pushed at this point to 1915 and later 1918 before Russell's passing.

    By the time the society was deep into Rutherford's control, they figured that something needed to be done with 1914. Hence all the gymnastics done with the Gentile Times.

    In all of this, 1914 remained a constant. The understanding of what went on in 1914 changed, the date of Jerusalem's destruction changed, and even today the definition of a generation who witnessed it changed but that date remains a constant.

    Until the Society finally releases 1914 as its pivotal date, they will continue all the doctrinal gymnastics in regards to everything related to it.

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