Generation - topic dedicated to debator

by teel 77 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  teel

  agonus:

  "Witnesses do not claim inspiration for their current understandings on inspired bible prophecy. Witnesses also do not claim inpiration for reading signs or calculating Bible chronology from the bible. They claim only bible and spirit guidance"

  Here we go again with that old chestnut... the GB is not "inspired", just "spirit-directed"...

  Will somebody once and for all clear this up for me: WHAT the hell is the difference?!

  teel:

  You deliberately use the emotive accusatory word "lying" but all you can prove is that they were mistaken as much themselves as anyone else in their current understanding of this prophecy so impossible for the epithet "lie" to be used in this case.

  Umm, it was you who introduced the concept of lies in this discussion, now don't balk at someone who responds with your own words. It was only a rhetorical tool - "Did Jesus lied?" - "No, the GB lied."

  Then, as has been asked before many-many times, (every single JW apologist failed to answer) please answer how does "God's channel" work when they are not inspired. Don't forget to add scriptural references, past biblical examples, and try to avoid falling into fallacies.

  isaacaustin:

  Was this 1914 generation teaching that remained in effect until 1995 a false prophecy?

  The GB took Jesus words and put a time constraint on which Jesus words had to happen, they published this repeatedly and made it mandatory that all members must accept and preach this. Is there a Bible precedent to this?

  Jeremiah 28 1 In the fifth month of that same year, the fourth year, early in the reign of Zedekiah king of Judah, the prophet Hananiah son of Azzur, who was from Gibeon, said to me in the house of the LORD in the presence of the priests and all the people: 2 "This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: 'I will break the yoke of the king of Babylon. 3 Within two years I will bring back to this place all the articles of the LORD's house that Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon removed from here and took to Babylon. 4 I will also bring back to this place Jehoiachin [a] son of Jehoiakim king of Judah and all the other exiles from Judah who went to Babylon,' declares the LORD, 'for I will break the yoke of the king of Babylon.' "

  So Hananaiah is restating what the Lord said, but putting a time constraint on when it will happen, and calling it the words of the Lord, or 'the Creator's promise'.

  What happened?

  Jer 28 15 Then the prophet Jeremiah said to Hananiah the prophet, "Listen, Hananiah! The LORD has not sent you, yet you have persuaded this nation to trust in lies. 16 Therefore, this is what the LORD says: 'I am about to remove you from the face of the earth. This very year you are going to die, because you have preached rebellion against the LORD.' "

  17 In the seventh month of that same year, Hananiah the prophet died.

  This mistake, or misinterpreation by Hananiah that was in need of severe refining, defined him as a false prophet in the eyes of God. Did the GB persuade 6 million members to believe in lies?? I think it is obvious.
• 

  teel

  sd-7:

  Great example, isaacaustin--Jeremiah has some really great, choice words for false prophets that are definitely food for thought for anyone who tries to justify the false statements made by those claiming to be a 'collective somebody special' class.

  isaacaustin:

  Thanks SD-7. Hananiah's actions perfectly match what the GB did with this 1914 generation.

  isaacaustin:

  SD-7, the Wt tries the crybaby approach on this one, claiming that they are just zealous to see God's kingdom come and Jehovah's name santified.

  sd-7:

  Another great point, isaacaustin--and another point brought up at my committee meeting. Eagerness would never be valid justification for any individual's sins of this nature. I said it flat out to the elders, "If anyone came in here with that sort of reasoning, they would be summarily disfellowshipped." When it reaches the level of seriousness that the Society is guilty of, you can't claim it's about eagerness. Millions of people are getting this information and TRUSTING it, basing their major life decisions around a belief that something major is right in front of them because the Watchtower says so. When it doesn't happen, there is a price paid--people are stumbled and lose faith in God when false declarations are made in his name. This is well documented, thanks to the geniuses of the Watchtower Society.

  "False prophets will arise and mislead many." At least one prophecy Jesus said was most certainly fulfilled beyond all others.

  isaacaustin:

  SD-7, it is almost as ridiculous as someone walking into a JC due to formication and telling the elders that it was simply they were overzealous to spend the rest of their life with their significant other. LOL

  isaacaustin:

  I can think of no more a direct fulfillemnt of Jesus words on false prophets than the GB.

  MMXIV:

  debator,

  I don't want to debate. This is all I will say. I never spoke to a single householder about the generation and added the following clause:

  Witnesses do not claim inspiration for their current understandings on inspired bible prophecy. Witnesses also do not claim inpiration for reading signs or calculating Bible chronology from the bible. They claim only bible and spirit guidance

  There is no pioneer, bethel elder or one of the annointed that I ever worked with that used such a get out clause when talking JW doctrine. We all taught JW doctrine as truth. In fact many on this site have been df'd or ds'd for expressing doubts about such doctrine. If some or all of the generation doctrines are wrong and the latest one may be "refined" as you say then why not be honest with householders - or at least yourselves.

  MMXIV
• 

  teel

  crazycate:

  Now I remember why I don't read those things anymore...they fill me with rage. "Evidently..." What is the evidence that leads them to that "evidently." The only thing I can think of is that their explanation that the people living in 1914 would not have died when the end came turned out to be wrong. It was wrong! Not clarified now, but wrong!

  I told householders for 25 years that I could prove, from the Bible, that there would still be people alive when this system ended who had been born in or before 1914. 1995 was the beginning of the end for me. I just felt like such a fool going out in field service and wondering when some astute householder (aside...what a funny sounding word that is to me now) would ask me to explain the change. Which I couldn't. I am so glad I don't have to wonder how on earth to explain to someone that holy spirit has given us an entirely different definition of generation than anyone else in the world has.

  And I second the request for an explanation of the difference between spirit directed and inspired.

  PS How do I make this type larger?

  debator:

  Hi Everyone

  First let me say thank you for taking the time to reply to me. I hope you don't mind if I answer you all as a whole rather than individually mostly because I lack many post options and you all make similar points.

  I clearly hit a note with this one. Since most of your points are dealing with the difference between "God inspired" and "Spirit guided" I will address that.

  Would you all agree that Bible prophets and bible writers were God inspired by his spirit? the classic scripture for this is in Timothy.

  2 Timothy 3:16
  All Scripture is God-breathed (inspired).

  And here is one specifically dealing with prophecy.

  2 Peter 1:21 (New International Version)

  21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

  Are you saying that Jehovah's witnesses claim that they get their words from God in the same way as the bible writers and prophets did? Because I know that they deny exactly that. The Scripture someone used earlier was specifically condemning a prophet saying he had direct access to God to say words inspired from God.

  What Witnesses do say is that they are "spirit guided" or "directed" and also "bible directed" too, this is not the same as God inspired. It involves using principles of shepherding from the bible and getting the fruitage of that, under the gentle guidance of holy spirit but not direct messages from God.

  Heb 5:14 But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong.

  Both the Bible and God's spirit guide us and through that we gain decernment.

  1 Corinthians 2:12 (New International Version)

  12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.

  Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

  22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

  Hebrews 4:12 (New International Version)

  12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

  Romans 8:5-6 (New International Version)

  5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man [a] is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;

  What you are really doing is narrowing the spirit to only being able to inspire words from God and prophecies from God, when it does so much more.

  I see the fruitage of this spirit guidance in seeable bible truths Jehovah's witnesses have decerned since their early days and among other men throughout history that have decern these truths too. And I believe they have done this beyond any other so-called christian group ATM who are still mired in unbiblical doctrines from centuries ago unable to be refined even biblically out of them. But Witnesses do not claim to get these messages directly from God as his inspired words. but they do pray for his spirit guidance which is quite scriptural.

  Ephesians 3:16
  I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being,

  Colossians 1:9
  For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you and asking God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding.

  Like I said it is You that are limiting the spirit of God to be only used for doing inspired words and prophecies and then saying accordingly that anyone who claims to have spirit guidance is instead claiming direct inspiration by God when they are not.

  Hi AnnOMaly

  Thats exactly my point the Apostles got Jesus words wrong and spread it among themselves until Jesus had to refine them from this mistake. The bible makes it clear they did have access to holy spirit at this time often sent out by Jesus to heal and preach with spirit help. According to the reasonings on here that should stop them for making this type of mistake. but it didn't

  Some of you mention 1914

  This is a date derived from Bible chronology not God directly. It comes from "times, time and half" prophecy in the bible and is further calculated using Bible indicators on time "day for year" etc. Since I can source it directly to bible Chronology there is no way they are claiming Godly inspiration for this so it is simply a current understanding from Bible-based Chronology. Again is bible chronology a lie and not to be used?

  You are all accusing them of being false prophets yet they have not claimed one single word of inspiration from God! They have not claimed to do one single sign from God! They have not claimed to do one single miracle from God!

  Matthew 24:24
  For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.
  2 Thessalonians 2:9
  The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,

  Everything they understand is from prayerfully seeking decernment through God's word ALREADY written and spirit guidance.

  There is definitely a feeling of nitpicking with your words and an extraodinary level of expectation applied to witnesses, that you clearly do not expect of other Christian religions or even yourselves as people following God.

  For the ones that still believe in God among you I ask the following.

  Do you believe you can be guided by the bible and God's spirit without having Godly inspiration directly?
• 

  teel

  palmtree67:

  "spirit-inspired"........"spirit-directed".........

  Either way, they claim to be God's only spokesman on earth.

  It's not fair to claim to be God's spokesman, then when your predictions don't come true, laugh and say "Haha! We never claimed to be perfect!"

  tec:

  Concerning spirit directed vs. spirit inspired:

  Paul knew that people considered him as inspired; that they would listen to his commands and hang on to his words as if they were from God. So Paul seemed to be very careful with how he worded things, and he did not abuse the trust given him. When something came from him, and not from God, he made certain to clarify that.

  1Corinthian 7: 12 - To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord)...

  At the end of his spiel he tells people that he thinks that he, too, has the Spirit of God. But he sill made sure that he made the distinction when speaking from himself.

  Tammy

  debator:

  Hi tec

  So do the witnesses, they make sure that it is clear they do not have the ability to be inspired by God in this time and they give all credit to Jehovah through his son Jesus. I think people confuse humility and giving credit to Jehovah for claiming personal glory. I do not see this.

  1 Peter 4:11
  If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.

  Having confidence in your faith and God is not a bad thing. Paul told Caesar Agrippa he should become a Christian (then a united group of one people) according to some on here Paul would have been wrong to give christianity that much credit as God's people. It is tempting to think the multi-doctrinal and divisioned christianity we have now is the norm but this is not what we should be like. We should be one people with one message and one God and have confidence in that.

  I think people are also quibbling at obedience to shepherds but the bible is very clear on this in a number of scriptures.

  1 Peter 5:2
  Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve;

  and we pick overseers from among ourselves (even though we are imperfect).

  Titus 1:7
  Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain.
  
  Like I said I find accusations against witnesses on here that are uniquely put on them but on no other Christian people, either early first century ones or modern ones. People seem to want to ask an extraordinary unrealistic perfection from witnesses.

  On generations.

  Why are people so hung up on the Biblical generation prophecy? Prophecy is by nature subjective until fulfillment. we are told to use understanding/discernment on it.

  Mark 13:14 (New International Version - UK)

  14 When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong— let the reader understand— then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains

  Why would they be 100% perfectly accurate on reading prophecy? This is impossible unless you are Jehovah who himself beyond even his son knows fully the timetable? All we can do is use prophecy as best as we can decern and work out. But we should still use the prophecies to work things out. It is why we are given prophecies.

  To everyone I ask,

  Are you saying unless we can be perfectly accurate on biblical prophecies like Jesus's "generations" we should not use them?

  Thank you for your reply Tec
• 

  teel

  teel:

  Are you saying unless we can be perfectly accurate on biblical prophecies like Jesus's "generations" we should not use them?

  debator, you know that almost all of the people on this forum were df'd, da'd, or similar because they didn't agree to some doctrine, right? Now, don't tell me that setting up a standard, on which people's eternal lives are judged upon (the general view is that the df'd has a very high chance of dying if he doesn't repent, much higher than any "worldly") - that these standards don't come from God, but imperfect men are trying to piece it together from the Bible. What? Don't judge others, lest you be judged?

  Now, the way I see Christ's church is somewhat according to the principle "In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas" - unity in necessary things; liberty in doubtful things; charity in all things. "Generation" is doubtful - as it was proven time and again in the last century. Please allow me liberty to doubt it, without saying I'm not following God.

  I also find tec's quote still very relevant - the WT currently says Jesus evidently meant that. They don't say that "we think he meant that". They're putting words in Jesus' mouth. An evident thing should not change every 10 years or so. If the GB is truly humble as you say, then let them show their humility by saying that these interpretations are only how they see what the Bible means - it might not be from God, we might be wrong, but we're pretty sure Jesus meant this you brothers do as you please. This is exactly what Paul did in tec's quote - I guess he wasn't humble enough like our great leaders, huh?

  AnnOMaly:

  Thats exactly my point the Apostles got Jesus words wrong and spread it among themselves until Jesus had to refine them from this mistake. The bible makes it clear they did have access to holy spirit at this time often sent out by Jesus to heal and preach with spirit help. According to the reasonings on here that should stop them for making this type of mistake. but it didn't

  No, my point was simply that the 'word' that went out did not become official Christian 'didache' or doctrine or dogma. And the NT doesn't say anything about Jesus refining them from this mistake. It only comes up as an historical narrative in John's gospel - that's it.

  Anyhoo, out of consideration for nicolaou 's thread, I'll end the discussion on this right here.

  isaacaustin:

  Debator said:

  Hi AnnOMaly

  Thats exactly my point the Apostles got Jesus words wrong and spread it among themselves until Jesus had to refine them from this mistake. The bible makes it clear they did have access to holy spirit at this time often sent out by Jesus to heal and preach with spirit help. According to the reasonings on here that should stop them for making this type of mistake. but it didn't

  My reply:

  Did the Apostles spread, publish and make mandatory that all followers must accept what they believed Jesus meant? No. And please direct me to a verse where they spread/published their ideas as from God, similar to how the org called the end coming before 1914 'the Creator's promise'. The apostles did not do that. They simply asked Jesus IF he was restoring the kigdom to Israel at this time. BIG difference.

  Debator said:

  Some of you mention 1914

  This is a date derived from Bible chronology not God directly. It comes from "times, time and half" prophecy in the bible and is further calculated using Bible indicators on time "day for year" etc. Since I can source it directly to bible Chronology there is no way they are claiming Godly inspiration for this so it is simply a current understanding from Bible-based Chronology. Again is bible chronology a lie and not to be used?

  My reply: Not exactly Bible chronology, but man's interpetation of unrelated texts. They then crossed over into prophecy by calling it "the creators promise", the same as Hananiah the false prophet took God's words and put his own time constraints onto when it would happen and stamped God's name on it. Bible chronology is not a lie, the WT's interpetation of it is.

  Was this 1914 generation teaching that remained in effect until 1995 a false prophecy?

  The GB took Jesus words and put a time constraint on which Jesus words had to happen, they published this repeatedly and made it mandatory that all members must accept and preach this. Is there a Bible precedent to this?

  Jeremiah 28 1 In the fifth month of that same year, the fourth year, early in the reign of Zedekiah king of Judah, the prophet Hananiah son of Azzur, who was from Gibeon, said to me in the house of the LORD in the presence of the priests and all the people: 2 "This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: 'I will break the yoke of the king of Babylon. 3 Within two years I will bring back to this place all the articles of the LORD's house that Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon removed from here and took to Babylon. 4 I will also bring back to this place Jehoiachin [a] son of Jehoiakim king of Judah and all the other exiles from Judah who went to Babylon,' declares the LORD, 'for I will break the yoke of the king of Babylon.' "

  So Hananaiah is restating what the Lord said, but putting a time constraint on when it will happen, and calling it the words of the Lord, or 'the Creator's promise'.

  What happened?

  Jer 28 15 Then the prophet Jeremiah said to Hananiah the prophet, "Listen, Hananiah! The LORD has not sent you, yet you have persuaded this nation to trust in lies. 16 Therefore, this is what the LORD says: 'I am about to remove you from the face of the earth. This very year you are going to die, because you have preached rebellion against the LORD.' "

  17 In the seventh month of that same year, Hananiah the prophet died.

  This mistake, or misinterpreation by Hananiah that was in need of severe refining, defined him as a false prophet in the eyes of God. Did the GB persuade 6 million members to believe in lies?? I think it is obvious.

  Debator said:

  You are all accusing them of being false prophets yet they have not claimed one single word of inspiration from God! They have not claimed to do one single sign from God! They have not claimed to do one single miracle from God!

  My reply: They do not have to. They have claimed to be God's channel of truth, they have made claims as being 'the Creator's promise'..something paralleled in the Bible. The case of Hananiah clearly shows the GB to be a false prophet.
• 

  teel

  debator:

  Hi annOMaly

  The historical account of the mistake made by the apostles shows by inference that Jesus needed to clarify that he meant "He could if he wanted too" not that he would. so they clearly must have needed refining on this and the inference is that it was Jesus that corrected them. So I think my point remains valid. It also doesn't change the fact that they could and did make mistakes while having access to "spirit" and they didn't get condemned for this. The important point is that it didn't make it into official doctrine simply because they were willing to be refined from this mistake. Again I quote Daniel.

  Daniel 11:35
  Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.

  Mistakes will happen but what makes the wise stand out is that they are willing to be refined from them. It doesn't say we won't make mistkes. Like I said It is a false expectation to expect perfection ATM. And since you are willing to accept mistakes in the apostles that they got refined from but not the witnesses then your bias against the witnesses shows.

  Hi Isaac

  You can twist those scriptures all you like but my original point stands. They are clearly refering to Hananaiah saying he has had a message FROM GOD DIRECTLY! he was saying this was an INSPIRED expression From God. "This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says"

  Jehovah's witnesses have never claimed inspired message from God as Hananaiah clearly did and was condemned for completely.

  Using Bible chronology is an established Bible practise and was the reason why people were expecting the messiah in Jesus's time and why they fled to the hills after seeing the signs fulfilled that they were warned about. There is no condemnation in using actual Bible chronology and if some mistake is made in understanding on this, then time itself will refine them. If you are saying it is wrong to calculate bible chronology from the bible as written by biblical prophets that doesn't make sense? Are you are saying God inspired chronological prophecy to trap us? Or that it shouldn't be used?

  You are still trying to use the word "lies" on this when clearly the understanding on "generation" was one they themselves believed. A lie is a deliberate falsehood on the part of the liar not a mistaken understanding they themselves believe.

  The bible clearly indicates what is meant by "false prophecy" and it has to be an "Inspired " expression said to be directly from Jehovah. Not jesus or elijah or moses but Jehovah God himself supposedly speaking the words directly to them as Hananaiah claimed. If you want to stretch this to intepretation/understanding drawn from Already written Bible prophecy and chronology by Ancient writters, that is your perogative but you have no Biblical principle for this. The scripture you show disproves your point since it indicates Hananaiah is claiming to have had inspired words from God himself.

  Jesus himself said we should decern/interpret/understand bible prophecy so as to be "ready" and "on watch" he put no "get this perfect or else" tag on it. Just that we would get help and the light would be brighter as we relied on Jehovah, his spirit and his word the bible for understanding. Which indicates an ongoing process of refinement.

  I think you have made your mind up about the witnesses Isaac and while I respect your right to your viewpoint I cannot agree with it.

  I think I have taking this point as far as it will go and am only repeating myself now. So forgive me if I no longer reply.

  isaacaustin:

  Debator said:

  Hi Isaac

  You can twist those scriptures all you like but my original point stands. They are clearly refering to Hananaiah saying he has had a message FROM GOD DIRECTLY! he was saying this was an INSPIRED expression From God. "This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says"

  My reply: And the Wt said that their magazine "builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 completely passes away." Calling something the "Creators promise" is the same as saying God said it.

  isaacaustin:

  Debator said:

  Hi annOMaly

  The historical account of the mistake made by the apostles shows by inference that Jesus needed to clarify that he meant "He could if he wanted too" not that he would. so they clearly must have needed refining on this and the inference is that it was Jesus. So I think my point remains valid. It also doesn't change the fact that they could and did make mistakes while having access to "spirit" and they didn't get condemned for this. The important point IS that it didn't make it into official doctrine simply becasue they were willing to be refined from this mistake. Again I quote Daniel.

  My reply:

  Irrelevant. The Apostle asked a question. They also made mistakes. They did not stamp their wrong ideas as coming from God, the WT did...black and white in print.
• 

  teel

  debator:

  Hi isaac

  I will make one final point because you are misrepresenting the quoted words. "the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world" is a bible one from isaiah not from the witnesses. the 1914 is their deduction separated from this by the word "before" so the "Creators promise" only refers to the peaceful and secure world.

  Ps I read deut 18 it is clearly refering to Inspired words from God only or false Gods. I am keeping this simple as the bible does you are the one trying to stretch beyond saying "You are saying you speak the inspired words from God himself" but enough of this let the reader use decernment on both our points of debate. It has been interesting Isaac

  Thank you.

  isaacaustin:

  Addtional thoughts: Your qualifications as to what makes a false prophet go well beyond the BIble's simple and clear definition at Deut 18. You may need to review that.

  isaacaustin:

  Debator, why did you stop there? "the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world" Before the generation that saw the events of 1914 completely passes away. Those are not Isaiah's words. Anoter example of the org adding to the word of God. LOL

  isaacaustin:

  Debator said:

  Hi isaac

  I will make one final point because you are misrepresenting the quoted words. "the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world" is a bible one from isaiah not from the witnesses. the 1914 is their deduction separated from this by the word "before" so the "Creators promise" only refers to the peaceful and secure world.

  My reply;

  Not at all the case. A review of all WT material written till 95 shows the mags preaching the age of the 1914 generation as proof the end is near. "Creator's promise" absolutely does refer to the 1914 nonsense. Nice try, but an unsuccessful one.

  isaacaustin:

  Debator, are you an active JW? A former JW? A former study? What?
• 

  teel

  --------------------------------

  Up to this point was copy-paste. Now on with the schedule.

  The important point is that it didn't make it into official doctrine simply because they were willing to be refined from this mistake.

  Debator, are you implying the GB is not willing to be refined from their mistakes? That's why mistakes make it into JWs official doctrine? I'm not following you...
• 

  debator

  Hi Teel

  Lets boil this down to three points.

  What is the Bible definition of a false prophet?

  Do the witness shepherds claim to be inspired?

  Do we need to be "perfect" when intepreting Bible prophecy and chronology?
• 

  teel

  Short answers from the top of my head:

  What is the Bible definition of a false prophet?

  Deuteronomy 18:22: "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him."

  Do the witnesses shepherds claim to be inspired?

  I am only talking about the GB. They are adamant that they are not inspired, because they don't want the responsibility that comes with that claim. However they act as they are inspired, and expect the followers to believe their words as coming from God. "Inspired" means the Holy Spirit directs the thoughts or sometimes the actions of an individual to act or teach in a specific way. Is this not exactly what the GB claims to have? Or please tell me what does "inspired" means, and why does it not apply to the GB.

  Do we need to be "perfect" when intepreting Bible prophecy and chronology?

  Absolutely not. We do need to be "perfect" in the Bible's understanding when we expect others to put their lives on that interpretation.