God, Gays & Evangelicals

by alice.in.wonderland 82 Replies latest social relationships

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    Not to be rude, you know I appreciate you PS - but really is there any indication that he was straight? Isn't it more accurate that the source is entirely mute on the subject and we get to inject our own biases onto him? Sure we can play the odds and say he was likely "straight" (as if we can apply our modern cultural definitions so broadly), but we can also interpret his body of work and say he was a Stoic aesthete who rejected sexuality from a philosophical point. Indeed, he said much more against straight sex and raising a family than qualified anti-gay statements.

    Actually there is nothing to make us thing he WASN'T gay, and certianly hius love for Timothy can be taken to a whole other level if we want to.

    And certianly man if his ideas were very "greek", but let's be honest here and admit that Paul being gay probably was not something that could be hidden, not with so many people against him.

    I think that many of Paul's letters, since they were a combination of answeres to questions and recommendations to elders and "special ones" in a given congrgation, where many times take out of context.

    Paul said that a preacher CAN live off his preaching, but makes note that neither He nor thsoe with him did that.

    He also advices those that have dedicated themselves to Christ, not just followers, but dedicated their lives to Christ, shoudl remain single as to not expose their families to hardship and such. Advice and opinions do NOT equal doctrine and people keep forgetting that.

    Unless that advice and opinion is MADE doctrine.

  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    ^ Love you! ;-)

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Hey, that's how rumors get started, LOL !
    And I love you too sweetness.

    We need to remeber that the words of men, even those touched by Jesus as Paul was, are stil jsut that and they are opinions and view points that MUST be reconciled with the actual teachings of Jesus that we have.

    How we do that depends largely on HOW we approach the bible and what is taught there, on HOW we view God and Jesus, are they A God of Love and his only begotten Son or are they a God of laws, rules and wrath and punishment? or are they BOTH?

    If we want to have a personal relationship with God and Jesus then it must be PERSONAL, it must be OUR journey not anyone elses.

  • streets76
    streets76

    JimmyPage and leavingWT:

    When I said "Imagine" (though technically not a Beatles song) is worth more than any of Paul's drivel.

    I was referring to THE APOSTLE PAUL, not Paul McCartney.

    Sir Paul McCartney takes a backseat to no one.

    (Yikes, I gotta be more careful.)

  • cofty
    cofty

    I still think its a possibility. If we accept that homosexuality is primarily a matter of genes and development rather than choice, then the little we know about Paul would not be inconsistent with a devout gay man struggling against urges he believed to be sinful.

    Its purely speculation but worthy consideration

    "Imagine" may be the greatest song ever written IMO

  • exjdub
    exjdub
    Not to be rude, you know I appreciate you PS - but really is there any indication that he was straight? Isn't it more accurate that the source is entirely mute on the subject and we get to inject our own biases onto him? Sure we can play the odds and say he was likely "straight" (as if we can apply our modern cultural definitions so broadly), but we can also interpret his body of work and say he was a Stoic aesthete who rejected sexuality from a philosophical point. Indeed, he said much more against straight sex and raising a family than qualified anti-gay statements.

    Now that is brilliant void eater. I wish I could think of stuff like that! By the way...PS's response to it was quite reasonable and compelling as well. I am finding the more I read of PSacramento the more I appreciate him. I think I have been away from JWD too long.

    On another note: I have always found it puzzling that many Christians (my Baptist neighbor for one) are able to seperate the "sin" of homosexuality from the "sin" of a man and woman living together and/or having sex together without marriage. Where does the Bible seperate off the "sin" of homosexuality from that sin? Yet many Christians see these two situations as being totally different!

    Interestingly, my neighbor has been married 4 times (really) and divorced 3 times. His last marriage produced two sons who live in another state. He has a son with his current wife as well. Knowing this I was completely floored when he declared one day when we were talking: "homosexuals are destroying family values". I asked him how they are doing that and he didn't have an answer, other than to ask how he would explain it to his son (from his current marriage) if he saw two men walking down the street holding hands? I said: "Well, how about saying to your son, if he asks about it, that they are two men holding hands, but that you don't agree with it due to your beliefs, if that bothers you so much?" He didn't say much, other than to repeat that he still felt that homosexuals were undermining family values.

    I admit I was a bit frustrated with what he was saying, so I asked him: "what undermines family values more, two men walking down the street holding hands, or three divorces and two sons who don't see their dad?" Maybe not the most subtle thing I have ever asked, but it resonated with him as he admitted that I had a point. He hasn't made a comment about homosexuality in front of me since, although I am quite sure he still feels the same way. But something to think about...

    exjdub

  • cofty
    cofty

    Very good point exjdub - brave comment to your neighbour by the way

  • tec
    tec

    "what undermines family values more, two men walking down the street holding hands, or three divorces and two sons who don't see their dad?"

    Good question. Knowing his history, I would have asked the same thing. (I may have put it in a general sense rather than a direct sense, mind you)

    But you're right. At worse, homosexuality is no better or worse than any other sin. I don't like putting it into the same category as the others, though, because I don't know how you classify something you've been born with, as a sin. (yeah, you don't have to act on it - but no one has the right to judge another person as to how possible that is.)

    Tammy

  • joelingeorgia
    joelingeorgia

    lol, I used to get in the middle of these things, but its all been said.

  • JimmyPage
    JimmyPage

    Thanks for clearing that up, Streets. Although I love seeing which posters came to McCartney's defense... my blood brothers! Sorry, don't mean to derail a thread. Now back to the apostle Paul being gay...

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