God, Gays & Evangelicals

by alice.in.wonderland 82 Replies latest social relationships

  • alice.in.wonderland

    While participating on this website (one of the only three places I've discussed religion online) I asked a question:

    I've observed quite a few posts and comments here about religious intolerance toward gay men and women (I'm quoting), “the terror and murder of homosexuals instigated by Christians.” The religion I was raised in was in agreement with the Bible based view that alternative lifestyles are immoral but they never instigated any hateful rhetoric toward gay men or women. I've never even been inside a traditional Christian church, so the question to those who attend Christian churches is; do they regularly condemn homosexuality and incite hate or are these claims blown out of proportion by persons opposed to Christianity?

    One response:


    I don't think one can accurately classify all of Christianity with one answer to these questions. There is a lot of ground to cover between, say, Progressive Christianity and Westboro Baptist Church. On one hand, Progressive Christians share many values with the politically liberal. On the other hand, Westboro Baptist Church's motto is "God Hates Fags." That's even the domain name for their website. (I'm not going to post it because I don't want to lead people to it. The link above goes to a Wikipedia page.)

    God, Gays & Evangelicals - From Jill Carroll, Houston religion expert and author

    I was struck this week by the image of Lakewood Church Senior Pastor Joel Osteen praying for the success of Houston's new mayor. Lakewood, the largest Christian church in North America, is a socially conservative, broadly evangelical faith community. Mayor Annise Parker is a lesbian. Continued...

    Comments from gay forum participants:
    Thank you for the excellent and timely post Jill. As the war between the gay community and Christianity escalates I have a feeling we will be seeing much more hate-filled rhetoric.

    American evangelicals should hang their heads in shame that their own leaders have inspired legislation that is nothing short of genocidal. They have taken their "faith" to an all time low. Even though they try to deny any connection, don't ever doubt the evangelicals would introduce similar legislation in this nation if they thought they could get away with it.

    Don't give Joel Osteen too much credit just yet either. If you remember last year Jay Baker, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker's son who is gay tried to meet with Joel Osteen and Osteen refused to even meet with him. Also don't forget Osteen is trying to purchase Compaq Center from the city after enjoying his sweetheart deal lease, so he needs Mayor Parker. THAT is the only reason he prayed for her, he needs her.

    Homosexuals were on this Earth long before man invented Christianity, we'll be here long after it fades into history too.

    Posted by: CoolGayDad at January 6, 2010 05:28 PM

    I made the mistake of defending FOTF on behalf of a Catholic friend without being up to date on their policies:

    Controversial advertisement removed from NCAA website Alice, you seem to miss the whole point about why the ad was pulled. FotF is an organization that is known for its anti-gay ads and rhetoric. The NCAA has a policy of inclusiveness. The public is smart enough to know when organizations like FotF use 'code' to refer to their bigoted positions, and the NCAA doesn't want its supporters or athletes to be offended. If the KKK paid CBS for the same ad, and the ad said, "All I want is for my son to grow up knowing how to do the right thing", we could make some assumptions about what the KKK meant when it said, "the right thing", and it would be highly offensive to many people simply due to the fact that it came from a discriminatory source. There's no difference. The problem is, you don't see yourself as a bigot or hater, but you are if you support organizations like FotF. Sorry if the truth hurts.

    FotF pours tons of money into ads and political campaigns that they believe will further their agenda. Unfortunately, their agenda is partially to obstruct the civil rights of a large portion of society. Gays do not seek to infringe on the rights of heterosexuals, yet many heterosexuals seek to do so to gays. By allowing blacks and interracial couples the same civil rights and privileges as whites, we did not infringe on the rights of whites. Even so, many whites used the Bible as a weapon to try to prevent equal rights for minorities. I don't understand how people can't see the parallels. The Bible has been used to perpetuate slavery and to subjugate women. Christ did not intend for ancient Jewish law to be used out of context and as a weapon (and he never spoke of homosexuality) to oppress others. In fact, he would condemn the practice. This country is not a theocracy - yet. If it ever becomes one, the great experiment in constitutional democracy will have failed, despite all of our rhetoric to the contrary. We will be no better than Iran or any other theocracy. There is a petition on FofF's website that asks citizens to sign that opposes hate crime protection for gays. Apparently, they believe that because gays exhibit sexual behavior that they mistakenly believe is sinful, they should be subject to beatings and murders simply because they're gay. How is that not furthering and promoting hate?


    Focus Launches Petition Drive to Stop 'Hate-Crimes' Bill

    Jehovah's Witnesses don't participate in attempting to use the federal government as device to control the personal lives of others that is why they're not on the hit list of those opposed to religious organizations pressing for a national theocracy.

  • HappyDad

    Bottom line.........according to the Bible, homosexuality is wrong! The churches I have attended along with the one I am a member of now, have condemned the act, not the person. In fact, we have talked about it in depth. We would welcome any person, gay, straight, or whatever to attend but would not try to browbeat them about their lifestyle. And we would not be unfriendly toward them. If they question, then we use only the scriptures to show that the practice is wrong. You can argue point and counterpoint forever but to a Bible believing person, you will never win.


  • Georgiegirl

    I gotta hand it to you, AIW. You either have the biggest set of cojones ever or you just love to stir up controversy.

    (runs to get popcorn, sits back and waits)

  • keyser soze
    keyser soze

    Jehovah's Witnesses don't participate in attempting to use the federal government as device to control the personal lives of others

    They have other means of accomplishing that.

  • PSacramento

    Ancient man, according to the OT, was against honosexuality, it was not natural and it was a sin.

    Jesus was silent on the matter.

    Paul was "vocal" and siad it was wrong.

    So how does a Christian deal with it?

    If God is Love, and Jesus is love:

    13 If I speak in the tongues a of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, b but have not love, I gain nothing.

    4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

    8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

    13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

  • garyneal

    I remember the days of attending my old Independent Fundamental Baptist church where the preacher would very frequently talk about queers. "Queers this, queers that," he'd say, always hammering on how they were bringing immorality into the world. The people would eat it up and at the time, I was doing it too. Hey, what can I say, I was also a big Rush Limbaugh fan at the time and the preacher reminded me so much of Mr. Limbaugh that I would sometimes refer to him as Pastor Limbaugh.

    But blowhards like him eventually fade away when they begin to sound ridiculous and fade away he did. His church had dismal numbers in his congregation and began losing people (like myself) in his last years at that church.

    Joseph 'Judge' Rutherford, Rush Limbaugh, and Pastor 'Limbaugh' of that old Indy Fundy church. Their all of the same stripe, giving the non-thinking person something to identify with until the person begins to think for himself or herself.

    Most churches don't talk about it, however, when asked, they appeal to the Bible (which condemns it). However, we also know that some churches are allowing it.

    My old philosophy professor wrote a very interesting editorial about this that appeared in the Sunday paper of my hometown. That small town, located 60 miles south of Jerry Falwell territory, made some noise over that editorial and the college that employed him lost their funding from the Southern Baptists. A well known Southern Baptist preacher wrote his own editorial in response explaining why the funding to this college got cut.

    If anyone is interested, I can ask that professor if it is okay for me to share his letter to the editor here.

  • besty

    here comes the stupid question:

    stupid question ------->>>>>> do they regularly condemn homosexuality and incite hate or are these claims blown out of proportion by persons opposed to Christianity? <<<<<<-------- end of stupid question

    here comes the only possible rational answer:

    rational answer ---------->>>>>>>> Alice, I don't think one can accurately classify all of Christianity with one answer to these questions. <<<<<<--------end of rational answer

    The first line of the first answer informed you that your question was low grade.

    Garbage In Garbage Out

  • PSacramento

    The vast majority of Christians don't care what goes on in other peoples bedrooms, those that do is because they have so little going on in THIERS.

  • mind blown
    mind blown

    Ahhhhh.....I see naughty Alice forgetting her meds again.......

    HOWEVER, PSacramento, you make an outstanding point! Yes, Christ did not make mention of it!

    It's noted, Paul may have "over stepped" many boundries! He was known for being a militant personality, maybe even running away with the ball. Actually, many new "stern suggestions" for the congregations came from Paul.

    When Christ returns we'll know for sure.

  • PSacramento
    It's noted, Paul may have "over stepped" many boundries! He was known for being a militant personality, maybe even running away with the ball. Actually, many new "stern suggestions" for the congregations came from Paul.

    Paul didn't over step his authority in regards to homosexuality, it is a sin according to the OT and I am sure Jesus wouldn't have been to happy about it, he did however make it clear that while improper sexual behaviour is to be condemed, love must still prevail and as such, the homosexual would have been dealt with with as much love as possible, but it would be made known that "driving the hershey highway" was unacceptable.

    Of course, Paul probably didn't have to pray to Jesus for divine revelation in this regards because he probably had made up his mind on the matter already.

    What would Jesus do TODAY?

    I don't know, I really don't know to be honest.

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