Why do all intelligent Christians disobey Jesus?

by StoneWall 347 Replies latest watchtower bible

    And finally, Isn't it wonderful that Jesus said "But the one who does not know[his master's will] and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much more will be asked."

    How do you know Jesus said that? Someone could have made it up and claimed that Jesus said it.

    I quoted from the Bible on the previous page. Do you believe that nasty bit too or just the nice bits?

  • leavingwt
    after making our profession of faith

    Please try to imagine this issue from the perspective of someone who has not yet made this profession of faith. What should convince a person that such a step should be taken? (A personal revelation is very straightforward.)

  • BurnTheShips

    26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

    Hebrews 10:26-27 (New International Version)

    Context, Gladiator. Who was Hebrews written to? What is Hebrews 9-10 about?


  • PSacramento
    Please try to imagine this issue from the perspective of someone who has not yet made this profession of faith. What should convince a person that such a step should be taken? (A personal revelation is very straightforward.)

    There are many reasons that woudl keep one from making this profession of faith, I can think of no better than finaly breaking the shackles of the WT !
    God knows this, God understand this and God is patient and loving as always.

    How do we know this?

    Well, just as we are patient and loving with our children, with those we love and hold dear, then how can God, who is so far superior to us, NOT BE?

  • not a captive
    not a captive

    I completely am on board with you, Gladiator. I mean it.

    I relate to a story I heard of someone in the same boat as you and I.Just because I relate to it doesn't mean anything, does it--but I'll tell it.

    A man in an occupied territory got a message from something that claimed to be an angel. The thing told the man that he was selected to deliver his people from oppression. The guy wasn't going to buy it out of hand (self-doubt?, didn't believe in angels). In fact he told the angel that he knd of thought God had cut out on him and his peple anyway. So,In best rationalist style he laid a fleece out , not once but twice and told God to do certain thing with it to show him whether or not he was really there. Then he was willing to listen.

    You know the story.

    We don't believe unless God will access us at some level. What level? I had a higher threshold than a lot of believers. But like they say of training mules compared to training horses--they may be more resistant to instruction but they remember the lesson well.

    Faith does involve some risk and I do believe it involves a direct inquirey.

    Even a scientist washes his hands and disinfects the impliments surrounding the experiment.

    But one thing--I never expected the "answer" I got from God. We can't predict the outcome.

    I am not shy about sharing my personal experience with anyone who asks about it. But I recognize that nobody else's story made me believe in God any more than reading the gospels now makes a believer of every reader. Gideon's story is just a story--unless you are Gideon.

    Otherwise wouldn't I believe that good doctrine makes good Christians?




    I have read the context. Paul is talking to his Brothers about faith. He explains that deliberate sinning, having accepted Christs sacrifice, is worse than breaking the law of Moses. To deliberately disobey Jesus results in death. Other scripture repeats this. It is a biblical theme.

    Its in my bible, how about yours? I don't accept what he Bible says, because I am not a Christian.

  • tec

    I 'never said it was. But saying "Everyone has the potential to become a child of God in the spiritual sense as well as literal" is a rejection of it- DD


    At worst, its a misunderstanding. Not a rejection. I just see the messages of the bible differently than you do. Jesus said no one can come to me unless the father has enabled him. But do you know what this enabling entails, whether there are qualifications or if it is ongoing, or anything else that I can't think of at the moment? I don't know. And what about 2Peter 3:6 - The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. . This tells me that all people can come to repentance. Doesn't mean they all will, but it certainly indicates that they all have that possibility. And in Acts 2: 23 - This man (Jesus)was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. . Three thousand of these people who Peter was addressing (who did not hear at first) repented that day. So perhaps they were just called later? Or perhaps everyone is called, but not everyone answers? In Jesus' parables, many were invited to the banquet, but few actually came. There are many different ways to look at predestination, (which I think means we're not understanding something) . But I think arguing over it can become a trap. You could be right, and I could certainly be wrong. But in the end, whether there is predestination for all or free will or any combination of the two, should any of this make a difference to us? As far as we know, anyone we meet can come into repentance. So that is how we should view and treat everyone. . Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight,but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. . Are you telling me that, just because the bible is misunderstood it's not the Word of God? Jesus is still misunderstood, but you don't claim to discount Him as the Word. -DD . I didn't just say misunderstood. The bible has errors. Translation errors, at the least. References and sayings that we've lost the meaning for. And there are errors in context also- Jeremiah 8:8 How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? . I think its just a matter of which is more important. God can teach people through the Holy Spirit. He doesn't need the bible, nor has the bible always been available. And Jesus IS the Word of God. People did not read his writings. They heard his voice. Which we can still hear now via the Spirit. Ink and paper are certainly a guide, but they are a poor substitute for hearing Jesus' voice. . Tammy

  • not a captive
    not a captive

    Am I wrong, or am I going to die in a few years--regardless of my faith?

    So what's next if I am convinced that God is loving and Jesus is the greatest thing since sliced bread? If he's all powerful and he is going to make hurts go away. I don't care how he does it really.

    When I had a kidney stone they fixed me up with some kind of stuff in my vein . I still don't know what it was, but I'm glad they gave it to me.

    How hard is it to know and reject Christ?--It's pretty hard is my guess. You have to know Christ or how can you reject him? Mat. 12:31

    Something that I would be afraid would get me there would be falsifying the scriptures about him and then forcing others to repeat doctrines that separate us from even trying to know the Christ and his Father. That would scare me, to do that.

    I want find out what good things God has in store--not for me so much, because my time at the "fair" hasn't been all that bad.

    But for a lot of humanity--God will have to do some remedial work of healing . He knows that I do expect more than that--more than just painkilling death.

  • tec

    I hate it when my stuff gets all squished like that. How do I fix it?


  • tec


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