The Debate: Do JW's Need Respect?

by Mindchild 85 Replies latest jw friends

  • VeniceIT

    I wonder if they have written these articles from personal experiences!

    Tim can you prove that these articles HAVE actually encouraged JW's to seek medical help?


    "Injustice will continue until those who are not affected by it are as outraged as those who are."

  • VeniceIT

    due to the fact that our prosecuting attorney has reached his posting limit, and the fact that it's getting late I hereby call a recess! we will reconvene this trial on Sunday Jan 13th!

    CRACK *Gavel*


    "Injustice will continue until those who are not affected by it are as outraged as those who are."

  • tyydyy

    I cannot produce any evidence at this time (my personal WTS library is dwindling) showing that the WTS encouraged anyone to seek professional help. I do remember an article several yrs ago noting that medication is a viable means for treating depression along with encouragement from friends, family and congregation elders and prayer.
    I would hope the court would allow someone else to research the articles on this subject. (Could someone who has access to the WTS CD look this up please)


  • VeniceIT

    Tim I see you are in the chat room. I hope you are not talking to any of the press or on the jury. I would hate to have to declare a mistrial after all we have put into this


    "Injustice will continue until those who are not affected by it are as outraged as those who are."

  • tyydyy

    Tyydyy's statement to the press on the courthouse steps:

    I would just like to make it known that the arguements I present here do not necesarily reflect my personal views. I merely present the evidence and arguements to give everyone acting as the jury to come to an informed decision.

    No more questions please. Please. I must go.


  • SixofNine
    You all got to rise when Judge Venice comes in the room.

    happens every time

  • nowaytess

    WE should give teh Wt the respect it deserves. It is not very much.

    If a person want to worship a tree it is their choice. We must respect the free will choices of others, no matter how ridculus it may seem. I also do not bear the consquences of anohter person's actions, only my own.

    Freedom to let the Wt be give them enough tome to expose who they are and to hang themselves.

    If a person after leaving choose to go back, I will respect thier choice.

    In the End, the leaders of the Wt and it's organization will be judge by Jesus. Since they don't put faith in Jesus as God, then he will give the Wt what it truly deserves not only deceiving it's member's about who Jesus is, but will face judgement by Jesus.

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  • JanH


    You seem to use the word "respect" the way I would use "tolerate". The words are often confused. I don't respect stupid ideas. I do tolerate them, though, meaning I would not do anything to have such ideas banned or prohibited.

    - Jan
    "Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets

  • Scully

    Your Honor, Judge Venice:

    Ms Scully, Co-Counsel for the Prosecution, offers the following rebuttal, having conferred with Mr. Mindchild:

    Counsellor for the Defense, Tim B, writes:

    On the subject of mental illness within the WTS. The WTS has done much to educate the public and the rank and file members of the symptoms and treatments of mental illness. This might cause a increase in recognition and subsequent treatment of the illnesses resulting in a larger percentage of WTS members recieving treatment in the form of office visits and medication.
    Your Honor, it is the belief of the Prosecution that:
    While on the surface, it would appear that public education and awareness of mental illness is achieved by the WTS in their publications, most notably Awake! magazine, invariably the articles in question conclude with greater emphasis placed on the heretofore unproven assumption that true relief from mental illness and its effects can ONLY be achieved by means of the Paradise, which does in fact cause individuals to delay seeking appropriate medical treatment, particularly if they feel that such relief is close at hand, as taught by the WTS leadership.

    As well, almost without exception, the advice to "faithful servants of Jehovah" with regard to depression in particular completely ignores and is profoundly counterproductive to the depressed person's needs. For instance, they are advised that to 'spend more time in sharing the Good News' and 'focus on doing more for others' will alleviate their symptoms.

    In fact, from my standpoint as a health care professional, as well as a survivor of depression, adding to the depressed person's perception of obligation in this manner and the ensuing feelings of being overwhelmed, over-burdened, and failing to live up to an external measure of worth serve only to compound the individual's depression and is therefore counterproductive to recovery. By such a focus on external measures and the temporary distraction they provide, the depressed person's recovery is actually impeded, because the very nature of therapy with a view to recovery involves promoting a person's ability for introspection and finding worth within themselves. Additionally, such measures further delay appropriate professional treatment being sought by the patient, which only serves to delay and extend their recovery.

    Furthermore, the generalised animosity toward the mental health professions that is fostered by the WTS, makes the followers distrustful and suspicious of practitioners such as psychiatrists, psychologists, and psychotherapists. This prevailing attitude, too, is counterproductive to an individual's seeking appropriate treatment, as it hinders the development of a trusting relationship between the patient and the therapist by inferring a negative value judgement on the therapeutic worth of the treatment. Claims have been made by individuals in shepherding roles in congregations to the effect that psychiatrists will attempt to "brainwash" JWs into abandoning the faith, and advice has been dispensed to depressed individuals such as "Don't tell the shrink that you're a Witness, or they'll think we're ALL crazy!" Such derogatory remarks and critical attitudes do not encourage people to seek the treatment they need, nor do they impart to the patient the sense of empathy and support that should be evident from those who claim to be their friends. Even if the patient decides to keep the matter private, and not disclose their treatment to those who in reality should be their support network, the resulting burden of guilt from keeping that 'dirty little secret' does nothing to alleviate the patient's suffering.

    For these reasons, whatever good is accomplished by the publication of these 'educational' articles regarding mental illness is seriously compromised, if not completely obliterated, by the actual practices and attitudes held by the vast majority of members of the Jehovah's Witness faith, and do little, if anything, to promote the mental health of its followers.

    Ms. Scully, for the prosecution

    It is not persecution for an informed person
    to expose a certain religion as being false.
    - WT 11/15/63

    A religion that teaches lies cannot be true. -WT 12/1/91

  • Mindchild

    The Prosecution submits the following objection to the Court from the opening statements made by the defense:

    Before we begin looking at the Witnesses, let's keep in mind that there are many organizations that do many good things for people but are still involved in scandals concerning how people are treated, how the money is handled and the ethics/motives of the leaders. Some that come to mind are, The Salvation Army, The United Way, Unicef, The Red Cross...etc. Do we withhold our respect from these organizations and ignore the good that they do because there is some corruption? That of course is a personal decision but most people respect these organizations for the good that they are attempting to do in spite of the controversy.
    My objection is that the WTS is suggested as something comparable to a charitable organization as per association with the well-known and respected organizations named by the defense. This is misleading because the only objectives of the WTS are its own charity, not public works.

    Your Honor,

    I also object to the inference made by the Defense in his opening statement he made with these words:

    They brought us all more personal freedom in the US because of their fights in the courts in the early and mid 1900's. They arguably teach good family values. At least when the children are preteen. It is arguable because each individual has a different idea about what they value in a family.
    I think it fair to say that the JW’s did fight in court to secure freedom of speech but you should also remember that same freedom gave us massive amounts of pornography in this country as well. I also have to ask the Defense if protecting pedophiles is something that promotes family values? Is shunning something that promotes family values? I think the court should remind the Defense that these remarks are at best mixed in terms of being favorable to the Defense as we all know that the JW family values are simply programming by the WTS to create more Witnesses and expand their reign of terror.

    Respectfully submitted to da Judge Venice.


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