P.S. It may be that Christians can reek of "cheap perfume", Terry. I agree that it is in the air so much it makes me wretch, too. But it was roughly this time of year (Yes, that full moon starts rising tonight!) that at least one woman took a year's wages to rub on Jesus' feet an exquisite perfume. Sometimes those who say they love Jesus are not lazy cowards.
Why is it so hard for Ex-JWs to make that "final step" and give up Christianity?
by sabastious 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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OnTheWayOut
I only read the opening post, I do want to comment and read the others later.
I examined the JW's properly and realized it was a lie, it was a dangerous mind-control cult.
I did not stop examining when I realized all that. I wanted to know some more about what the lie, the cult, was based on.
I examined the Bible until I realized that nobody ever ever ever lived under the Mosaic Law code as a nation of people, no worldwide flood occurred, YADDA YADDA. The Bible is a word of men. It is.I gave up Christianity pretty easily.
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steve2
There is an old saying, translated from Latin, that says, "The world wants to be deceived".
Believers and unbelievers alike have a basic need for comfort and reassurance in this unpredictable world and they'll do almost anything to embrace beliefs that provide comfort and reassurance.
Trouble is, what each person finds comforting and reasuring often differs from the next person, until we end up with a myriad number of groups each confidently claiming to have found "The Truth".
And the very biggest evidence that your brand of Truth is the Truth? Personal testimony - yes each of the conflicting groups produces its own crop of "personal testimonies". Talk about nebulous evidence. Yes, the world wants to be deceived - which is why new religions spring up all the time and attract a new round of willing believers.
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not a captive
There is an old saying, translated from Latin, that says, "The world wants to be deceived".
Believers and unbelievers alike have a basic need for comfort and reassurance in this unpredictable world and they'll do almost anything to embrace beliefs that provide comfort and reassurance.
Trouble is, what each person finds comforting and reasuring often differs from the next person, until we end up with a myriad number of groups each confidently claiming to have found "The Truth".
And the very biggest evidence that your brand of Truth is the Truth? Personal testimony - yes each of the conflicting groups produces its own crop of "personal testimonies". Talk about nebulous evidence. Yes, the world wants to be deceived - which is why new religions spring up all the time and attract a new round of willing believers
That is solid comment steve2. It is true that people looking for relief do run to places that they think provide relief or that affirms their understanding of truth. And, yes, there are always stories that serve as verification of authenticity. Yet I also find the personal testimony of another person is the shakiest basis for belief that one can have. I would even go so far as to say that even if one knows a person who has experienced a medically verified supernatural cure of a fatal disease ( I knew such a person), THIS should not form the basis of one's own faith.
And every group has their amazing stories to tell. This is the way of religion groups. Some believe fervently that this is the only way to authenticate Truth. For example, the Holiness Churches expect true believers to speak in tongues as tan immediate seal of a member's authenicity.
Yet "A wicked and adulterous generation look for a sign." said Jesus --and he did a lot of private and public healing.
????????????!!!
So what if any value should I place on personal testimony of a supernatural intervention? If I understand my own experience (I may not, of course) and if I understand Jesus in the Gospels (again, who can judge?) then it looks as though personal miracles are meant to nourish a person's spirit to persevere in their personal faith journey. Jesus who often provided unsolicited healings never bothered to disturb individuals with signs who had completely mapped a life clear of faith and were headed for the grave. Not that the power of an individual's faith pulls healing. Folks who think that "If you've got faith you will be healed" as though it is a transaction don't realize that faith is a conversation between a person and God. We don't show up with all the answers--just a lot of questions. I see God works to affirm any faith a person possesses at all. But woe betide the one whose sense of righteous entitlement overtakes them. In the case of the apostles, their ministry of healing bombed when they felt that they and only they had all the answers. In Mark 9 they had spun out in this regard and were not able to minister to a demon possessed boy because their "mustard seed" of faith and become exclusive instead of personal and not only had atrophied but had to be rebuked by Jesus. The apostles had taken on the very aspects of the kind of dry bones religion that you, steve2, describe.
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` When we say "Church" this is an English word . The Greek is ekklesia which means "called out". Called out from what-- I submit it means called out from a collective restricted conversation where all the Truth is known or is knowable only by a few. The calling out is for a genuine conversation. There is a Body of Christ but as Jesus warned at Matthew 24:23-31 his faithful ones will not be found all gathered together on the dead carcass of religion. No, the Christ will be all about as lightening in the sky and the Body of Christ will be gathered from "the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."
I enjoy this conversation, I hope it gets to continue.
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littlebird
I looked at the evidence for and against Christ, the bible, etc and compared that with my own personal experiences and came up with different conclusions than the atheists. I'm not a walking, talking encyclopedia, like some here, but my search found a historical Christ, evidence of the flood and confidence in the bible. Part of the reason I'm not much of a reference quoter is because I don't really feel the need to convince anyone of anything. I'm happy, it's my life and I'm finally feel free to believe as I wish.
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B_Deserter
For a while I thought the JWs were the best at interpreting the Bible after I left. I don't believe the Bible, so it really doesn't matter to me anyway. I am, however, glad I at least looked into the other point of view and found out JWs are just as...shall we say..."imaginative" in their interpretation of the Bible as any other denomination. You don't see Christians stoning people to death for minor offenses even though the Bible explicitly commands it. That's because they've creatively used their powers of interpretation to state that the Bible really doesn't mean what it says, unless they happen to like what it says, which in that case it really does mean it.
JWs are no better at following the Bible than anyone else, so I find it perfectly understandable for someone not to reject the Bible when they reject the Watchtower. In my case, I did reject the Bible, and I left the organization because of that. I think people saying things like "why don't ex-JWs go the final step and reject the bible" is just like when former JW Christians say "It's so sad the Watchtower turned you off to God." The Bible is what turned me off to God, but I'm not going to disrespect someone just because they accepted the Bible but left the society because the two aren't compatible. They aren't. It just doesn't matter to me like it does to other people.
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EverAStudent
To not a captive:
With great respect, I think I must disagree with a couple things in your post.
The "called out" refers to the "holy ones" (saints) being called out of the world, called out of darkness, called to freedom, and called out of sin to live to and for Christ (1 Peter 2:9, 5:10, 2 Timothy 1:9, Galatians 5:13, 1 Corinthians 7:22). By virtue of that calling it is a bit exclusive in so much as not everyone accepts the calling and so remains in darkness.
I also do not think that comfort and security are "needs" but rather are "desires." What we desire is not always what we need or should have.
Your post implies that people will sell truth for a deception if they think that deception will bring comfort. I rather doubt this is true for most Christians. Too many people have give up all comfort so as to serve Christ in the harshest and most terrifying conditions. Their motive? Love for Christ. I think that love is the most powerful of all the possible motives, as is responding to being shown love.
Blessings.
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not a captive
Thanks for the clarifying response EverAStudent. My thoughts get a bit jumbled as I peck at the key board.
Sorry not to be clear myself in my remarks about the holy ones who are "called out" by Jesus. Of course the holy ones come out from the world. It seems clear in the Gospels themselves that Jesus knew that fellow Jews needed to be called out--not of the world --but of their sense of religious entitlement: "We are children of Abraham" and they tried to kill Jesus then and there. Jesus told them to do the works of Abraham. This"work of Abraham" seemed to involve the willingness to listen to God's voice in just such a way as Abraham did (who hoped against hope)-- even if you get kicked out of the synagogue! Nicodemus had to contend with this. Since Nicidemus' fellows in the Sanhedrin didn't listen to Jesus should he? I believe it sometimes happens that we too in following Jesus may find ourslves thrown out of Church.
When I said that the apostles were exclusive and that Jesus reproved them for it, I only repeat what Mark 9: 38,39 expressed. That entire chapter is good for us when we think that there is a humanly appointed corporation "in the front row" in the kingdom or there may be a congregation of "Teacher's Pets"some where.I did not intend to express that Jesus had no standard for his disciples.
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thetrueone
I think for most EX-JWS that were involed with this religion for a length of time, still contain a certain amount of belief
in god. Lets face it if you haven't been educated or introduced with other thoughts of information on how this world
came into existence, its a probability that your still going to hold on to what you have been taught.
It seems that once a person gets familiarized with the sciences such as evolution, geography, history and human psychology
those spiritual beliefs of spiritualism and mysticism fade away.
Thats why so many of these religious sects play down and disregard higher education or outside information that the sect as no control or
involvement with.
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Sam Whiskey
If there is no God (I still prefer to call Him Jehovah), then how can it be explained that my prayers have been answered? Not once, twice or even three times but closer to a dozen times or more. When I found myself at critical junctures in life, I prayed earnestly to Jehovah, for direction or help, whatever the particular case. In all situations my prayers were answered.
I could have concluded that the answers were just coincidence but there were too many answered prayers. The idea of coincidence to the answering of my prayers had to be discarded.