by sabastious 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Sab, I think your original assumption was accurate. The majority here are atheists (see my post 172 above: "2 years ago I asked everyone on this forum to post what their religious leanings were after leaving the JW organization. About 90% of those who responded stated they were atheist.")
The only thing I think is wrong with your thread title is that it was never Christianity they gave up, rather it was the Watchtower. These folks were never Christians nor in "the" Christian religion.
I enjoy mountaineering. Most people who go into the hills will, sooner or later, experience that awful feeling that they are not where they thought they were or the person who was responsible for navigation has messed up.
It is a natural reaction to assume you are only slightly lost and the correct path is only a short detour away. The greater the consequences for being very lost the stronger this instinct. If you are faced with a night on the mountain and a possible rescue the lure of denial is very strong. Often when people are eventually found they have all the resources they needed to rescue themselves but were pressing on regardless hoping for the best. It takes a huge mental and emotional effort to admit you went off down the wrong path just after you got out the car.
When you realise you are on the wrong path spiritually it is natural to assume that the core of your world-view is correct. I became a christian for almost 10 years post-borg, it took a second massive upheaval to finally find my way "home".
Here was the thread from 2 years ago. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/183948/1/What-do-most-ex-JWs-believe-after-leaving
HABIT!
There is a rhythm to life and we learn it early.
We live in America and the flavor of "God" permeates everything.
The cheap perfume of christianity clings to everything.
Recalibrating a world view ain't easy!
All knowledge is divided into KNOWN and UNKNOWN. Consequently, what we "don't know" ends up in the default column as "God".
Prayer habits!
Let us face this creepy fact: talking to god (really yourself!) makes you schizo!
Your rational side can rid itself of religion, christianity and the need for a divine chat buddy. But, that schizo side of you desparately clings to the "voice" inside your head. It goes on praying.....
Further, we aren't all that rational as humans.
The superstitious side of us is pervasive. We tend toward thinking about lucky vs unlucky for example. When a co-incidence happens (as they must) we tend to make something bigger out of it than it deserves. We look for signs and omens in everyday life without even thinking about it.
Being reasonable, rational, logical tends to represent life as COLD, CALCULATING AND UNEMOTIONAL. Thanks Spock.
On the contrary, it would make things much easier if we'd develop the habit o mind of filtering our thoughts through some sort of bullshit detector before we entertained silly ideas and beliefs.
Bottom line; WE'RE LAZY! We want our habits and life to be predictible. The Kingdom Hall and all it entailed made life sooooooo predictible we wrapped our life around the habit.
Tsk tsk.
What a lot of nothing!
Trading one brand of "authority telling me what to think" for another is just plain cowardice and intellectual dishonesty.
It took me a good 30 years to free myself mentally. No excuse for that.
It called being programmed and brainwashed. Every culture around the world is dumbed down from the programing of the matrix.
To leave the dogmatically positioned thinking of Christianity, read the Bhagavad Gita or the Tao Te Ching. two excellent books of scripture.
How apprecaitive I am of being on a forum where we can healthily discuss these matters without the real fear of human religious authorities closing it down. To a greater or lesser extent, the ability to question one's beliefs is not encouraged in many Christian groups - yet it is the ability to question that has freed people from enslavement to religious dogma and doctrine.
I agree with you, EverAStudent, there is no where to go once the WT has convinced a person that THEY are the Way and the Truth and the Life.
Something I discussed with a friend the other day is that we don't fully embrace the freedom Jesus provides in his sayings and his doing--his giving of his life. We often don't "get" the idea that to avoid becoming ensnared by the doctrines of men we have to avoid JOINING any group. The laziness that Terry mentioned is what church affiliation is about. If we come to know Jesus at all we will "do the works of Abraham" --really listen to God without a committee meeting to process God's spirit for us: "For such freedom Christ set us free. Therefore stand fast and do not let yourselves be confined to a yoke of slavery. You were running well. Who hindered you from keeping on obeying the truth?" Gal. 5:1,7,8
There is no check-list of questions that will make you a Christian. A year ago when I told the elders in my former congregation that I could no longer teach people a certain thing that ran contrary to the Bible and Jehovah's character, a brother asked me " Are you being stumbled out of the Truth, sister?" I told him "No--there is only one truth. And I was determined not to yield it to the society." Later on(there were several meetings called in this past year) I pointed out that even should I be wrong in some sense in the matter, it was my conscience that I had to account for before God--I could not "unbelieve " my conviction on the matter. You can imagine how this was viewed.
In the end the option to hold my place in the congregaton would have cost me my conscience and my silence. The real issue in the minds of the local brothers, the circuit overseer,and ultimately the "Faithful Slave" via the Branch was that the literature of the Society is the only access to the mind of Jehovah. I would have to accept that Jesus had died for nothing and the Holy Spirit only answered when Bethel knocked.
But that is pretty much how it is in every mainstream or sidestream church is--the preachers talk and you listen and nod.
So I take Jesus at his word and hammer on God's door til I could not say it was a coincidence. I don't have to convince Terry or anyone else of the validity of God's response. Perhaps that is why Jesus sometimes told ones for whom he had provided healings "Go and tell no one". The benefit is private and REAL even if nobody else believes it or cares. I can't afford to kid myself and I can't afford to deny what happened either.
"final step"? you mean that leaving christianity is the end? how about leaving religion?
People are lazy, we are lazy. We like others to do the work for us. Thats why many are still JW in the first place. They let the WT to give them their food. Some leave cuz the food many times tastes rotten but then they just change restaurant.
Is hard to change habits. A Bean and cheese burrito is still a bean and cheese burrito even if the mexican restaurant is different :-)
Fear also prevents many to question their beliefs. Christ is way too big for many to question. He must have existed because the bible say so. But did he? Who really wrote the bible and when? Who is God really? How do I know that? ... Nah too much work. Happy easter everyone.
Who says it's " So hard for Ex-JW's to make that " final step " and give up Christianity " ? Wasn't hard for me at all. I just discovered in time that I was more " Christian " in my attitude in how I treat people than most claimed " Christians " I knew of- JW or otherwise. Many atheists and agnostics I have met are some of the most centered, grounded, well balanced people I know and have met
Hello not a captive :)
A prevailing thought running through the posts is this--If the Witnesses used the bible so extensively and they were so wrong, it must follow that the Bible is as corrupt as their leadership.
Well there are a good many different interpretations of the bible, the good, the bad and the ugly. All of them claim to be following the bible closely so who is telling the truth, they can't all be right!
Here are the things that awe can consider as distinct possibilities from the faith-warping doctrines of not only the Witnesses but of all organized religion's destructive imprint concerning our ability to listen to God--as individuals:
I think that is a bit of a broad statement. True Christianity is about communicating with God personally John 15:15 Galatians 3:26 Galatians 4:6
2. Organized religion cannot possibly fulfill the commission to Teach others how to be reconciled to God because being reconciled to God means we no longer have any religious organization mediating between us. Jesus is our only "Leader" Matthew 23:10, He is our only mediator. ANY RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION MANAGES THE MESSAGE SO TIGHTLY THAT IN THE END THERRE IS NO GENUINE CONVERSATION WITH GOD.
Agreed, Jesus is THE cornerstone, THE way, THE truth, THE life.
However, Jesus does have His "organisation" or rather His body and bride Ephesians 4:16 Mark 2:19 Revelation 21:9
The body is called the church Colossians 1:18 Ephesians 5:25 1 Timothy 3:15 Matthew 16:18
Read the Gospels and review the possibility that we are called to a great measure of personal responsibility in our interaction with God and his Son. In the middle of Mark 9 Jesus tells John that the disciple's sense of clubbish exclusivity was off-base. Jesus told him not to "prevent" a man who was casting out demons in Jesus' name but who was not following with their group. This scripture was NEVER examined in the 21+ years I attended meetings with the JWs.
There are many verses and passages that the WT hurry on past or twist and distort to hide the true meaning 2 Peter 3:16
3. Ask yourself did Jesus come to start a new mob rule? The early converts like the Jailer and his family in Acts 16 commenced Christian life with nothing more than a night's instruction and a midnight baptism. To make a diligent effort to uphold their profession of faith in the Lord Jesus it would seem that they had a basic--very basic-- introduction but then were left to the Holy Spirit to aid them in the subsequent days.
Indeed, Christian life is first is all about following the Holy Spirit John 14:17 Romans 8 Galatians 5 Ephesians 2 2 Timothy 1:14 1 John 4:13
Finally, isn't it true that we will have to stand or fall on our own even if we do meet to discuss and explore the availible information concerning God? "Where ever two or three are gathered together in my name there I am in the midst of them." How wonderful that fellowship is.
Amen! Jesus is in the midst, as He lives within the believer and amongst them corporately, all via His Sprit :)
As for disfellowshipping? We don't have to eat or play with any who are abusive of Jesus. But this should not be done as the JWs do it. Their entire process from our induction at baptism into the "Spirit anointed organization" makes our prosecutable offenses to include offenses against the organization--but not necessarily against God.
Agreed, the WT pervert several scripture to their own evil, 1 Corinthians 5 included.
These are just things that I've reflected on. Good to hear from everyone.
Just read your bible (ditch the NWT if that is all you have) and ask the Holy Spirit to be your guide. He will show you everything :) John 14:26 1 John 2:27 1 Corinthians 2:14
Blessings,
Stephen
