What happens when you die?

by AGuest 97 Replies latest jw friends

  • choosing life
    choosing life

    Shelby, I was interested in your statement that John wrote the book of Hebrews, as I have always felt it did not fit Paul's style of writing. I looked up the way both Paul and John started their letters and indeed, it is John's style and not Paul's. I will have to look more closely at this, but I thank you for pointing that out.

    When I picture John and James, I picture humility and love. Paul, however deals a lot with legalism vs. love and humility does not seem to be a strong characteristic of his.

    I am curious if you know others who have visions or hear voices, as you do? In other words, do you know others who are of the body of Christ? Do you talk with them and encourage each other?

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    ...and you would be wrong in that assumption.

    Then I stand corrected.

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    I looked up the way both Paul and John started their letters and indeed, it is John's style and not Paul's. I will have to look more closely at this, but I thank you for pointing that out.

    You are quite welcome, dear Choosing... and peace to you!

    When I picture John and James, I picture humility and love. Paul, however deals a lot with legalism vs. love and humility does not seem to be a strong characteristic of his.

    The thing that most don't understand, dear one, is that it is not humility before men - it is humility before God. 2 Chronicles 34:27; Jeremiah 13:16, 18; Matthew 18:2, 4; James 1:4; 1 Peter 5:6. Indeed, this was the very mistake Pharaoh made. Exodus 10:3 In the same way, WE are to humble ourselves beforethe Most Holy One of Israel... not earthling man (although love would prompt us to be as humble as possible, even with man). We do that... by humbling ourselves before His Son and Christ... indeed when we KISS the Son. And Paul did that:

    "And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am [Jesus] whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the goads. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do."

    Unfortunately, it did take a physical phenomena for Paul to become "humbled"... but he was.

    I am curious if you know others who have visions or hear voices, as you do?

    Yep!

    In other words, do you know others who are of the body of Christ?

    I do! In fact, more were added just this past week... and one last night. I cannot tell you how many because I would have to count them... and my direction is NOT to count... so that I do not start to think that I had anything to do with their being chosen. I did not. As the verse goes, perhaps I planted, but certainly Christ "watered"... and God Himself made them grow.

    Do you talk with them and encourage each other?

    Yes, we regularly share what we hear with one another. I probably hear/see the most, as that is my peculiar "gift." (1 Corinthians 12:10) Other gifts of the Spirit are shared among us. Yes, including healing (1 Corinthians 12:9). Like Paul, I will not boast about myself as to healing - I do not have that particular gift. But I know of one who does... and yes, it is real. Very real. No, you did not hear about it - the doctors couldn't accept the truth of why the healed's cancer (yes, cancer - a recurring type that the healed developed as an adolescent and, per the doctors had now run its course) went away. Their explanation was that it was "one of those things no one can explain" and "that sometimes happens"... although THEY had never seen it happened When the healed one tried to explain it... they blew her off. You know, looked at each other... rolled their eyes... "Yes, yes, we know, we understand, yes, sure, right." BUT... she lives... although they said she was dying, literally (the healing literally occurred in the hospital, at a time when the doctors said there was nothing further they could do). And it's been about 8 years, now.

    Why was this not, well, heralded on CNN (can't you just hear Martin Basheer - I can't stand that guy - "Curin' cawnsuh at the lost owah... a real miracle or-ah snike chawmin' howkus powkus?")? Our understanding is that the gifts are for the building up of the Body of Christ... and not to prove anything to the world. Thus, we do not control when the gifts work... or do not; God does, through Christ. So, you're not going to hear of ANY of us in the National Enquirer... or New York Times. It just doesn't work that way. True, those who benefit from the gifts may tell others... but they're usually not believed, so it doesn't get very far anyway.

    And there are those with whom I ALWAYS share what I hear... and am given to see... before I share it here. Some post here. If you read the posts carefully, you will "see" such ones. Others "lurk" but we communicate outside of this Board. We range in age, sex, nationality, ethnicity, etc.

    I hope this helps, dear Choosing... and may JAH bless!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hello choosing life

    Shelby, I was interested in your statement that John wrote the book of Hebrews, as I have always felt it did not fit Paul's style of writing.

    I agree, it certainly doesn't look likes Paul writings but neither do I think it look any more similar to John's writings (in fact, less so) and most would agree.

    See here in the ESV Study Bible for example

    Hebrews

    Author, Audience, and Title

    The author of Hebrews neither names himself nor clearly designates his audience. The traditional title “to the Hebrews” reflects the ancient assumption that the original recipients were Jewish Christians.

    The author's identity has been a matter of significant conjecture throughout church history. In antiquity, authorship was attributed to figures such as Barnabas or especially Paul. However, several of the most astute church fathers recognized considerable differences in style and method of argument between this book and Paul's named writings. Scholars have suggested other possible authors, such as Clement, Luke, or Apollos. However, most today concede that this author remains anonymous. It seems that the judgment expressed by Origen (d. c. a.d. 254) remains correct: “Who actually wrote the epistle, only God knows” (cited in Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 6.25.14).

    The author clearly knew his recipients and longed to be reunited with them (Heb. 13:19). They had a mutual friend in Timothy (13:23), and probably this was the same Timothy who ministered alongside Paul. The author was presumably male, since he refers to himself using a masculine participle (see 11:32: “would fail me to tell”). Since “us” included the author in 2:3 (the salvation “attested to us by those who heard”; also 2:1), it appears that he was not an eyewitness of Jesus. The author passed on the greetings of those “from Italy” (13:24). Scholars debate whether he was in Italy writing to the church elsewhere or was outside Italy (though accompanied by Italians) and writing back to an audience in Italy (possibly at Rome).

    The audience's social situation can be inferred from commands to “remember those who are in prison” and who are “mistreated” (13:3). Timothy himself had just been set free (13:23). Indeed, the author of Hebrews commended his audience for their former endurance of persecution, for their compassion on those in prison, and for having “joyfully accepted the plundering of your property” (10:32–34).

    The author warned against “strange teachings” in the church (13:9), and these teachings may have been related to the use of ritual foods (13:9–10). Moreover, he repeatedly called his audience to persevere in the faith and cautioned them about the danger of leaving the Christian communion, as he sought to show the superiority of Christ to Mosaic sacrifices and rituals (chs. 3–10). Hence the early church was likely correct to assert that Jewish Christians (as well as Gentiles who had previously been drawn to the Jewish religion) were the intended audience for this book (see “our fathers,” 1:1). Furthermore, such an audience would have well understood the book's many citations and allusions to the OT (and would have shared in the writer's frequent use of the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the OT).

    Blessings, Stephen
  • choosing life
    choosing life

    Thanks, Chalam. Interesting article. Sounds like it is up in the air, huh?

  • Twitch
    Twitch

    Everything that has a beginning has an end.

    Eternal life is a promise made by those who've haven't lived it to those who wish it.

    Believing something that is not proven is faith, but that doesn't make it true

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace!

    After reading your article I read Hebrews 2:1-3 again. I promise you, my Lord said it was "John." So, I asked... and, again, I heard it was "John". He then explained to me the meaning of Hebrews 2:1-3, as follows:

    Where verse 1 states:

    " 1 We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away..."

    ... the word of my Lord is that what was WRITTEN is:

    " 1 We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we HEAR, so that we do not drift away..."

    The Greek word "heard" shown in the first example is "akouo"... which is a PRESENT tense word meaning "hear." It is not past tense. Because the SCRIBES who transliterated this verse didn't understand what was meant, however, they thought the verse referred to things passed down... that some heard from Christ when he walked in the flesh... and then told to others. The word of my Lord is that this is false... as shown by the following statement:

    " 2 For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him."

    ... which transliteration is false. The ACCURATE transliteration of these two verses is:

    " 2 For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience [against such messages] received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation, which is first spoken to us by the Lord and confirmed among us by those who hear..."

    He then said that the next verse, inaccurately stated as:

    " 4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will..."

    is actually the conclusion of the QUESTION that was raised in verse 3 and so SHOULD read:

    "God also testifying to itbysigns, wonders, a variety of miracles and gifts of holy spirit* according to His will?"

    (*See 1 Corinthians 12:1-14)

    So, what was John saying? He was saying:

    "WE, therefore, must pay CLOSE attention to what we hear [from the Spirit] so that we don't drift away. Because if the message spoken by ANGELS [to those before the outpouring of holy spirit] was binding upon us, and every violation or disobedience [OF such sayings] resulted in righteous recompense, how can WE [to whom Christ HIMSELF speaks] escape if we ignore such a great salvation [or blessing]... which IS first spoken to us BY the Lord and confirmed among us by those who [also] hear him, God Himself also bearing witness to it by signs, wonders, various miracles, and gifts of the holy spirit given out according to HIS will?"

    Why is he saying this? Because if we DON'T pay attention to what we hear from the Spirit... the FREQUENCY with which we hear AND the VOLUME... will decrease. Why? Because... WE will have drifted AWAY from that Spirit. God and Christ do not leave us, dear one. They cannot. We... leave them. It is ALWAYS us, earthling man, who leaves. Not the other way around. The error and deficiency is ours. Always.

    Now, my Lord said that if you had difficulty understanding these truths (and that you would), the "witness" for it (if you need it) is found at Hebrews 12:18-28. Those verses state:

    18You have notcome to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19 to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20 because they could not bear what was commanded: "If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned." [c] 21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, "I am trembling with fear."

    22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24 to [Jesus] the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood thatspeaksa better word than the blood of Abel.

    25 See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused him who spoke to them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who speaks to us from heaven? 26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens."27 The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken-that is, created things-so that what cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, 29 for our "God is a consuming fire."

    So, dear one, I have to go with what I hear... from the Holy Spirit. I have to let the anointing that is IN me allow me to hear the Holy One of Israel when HE speaks... regardless of what earthling man writes... and put FAITH in it. And so I have and do. For as that One has said to me on MANY occasions, "ALL that I tell you IS written [but not necessarily in the Bible]... but not all that is written [in the Bible] is what I will tell you."

    Again, I bid you peace... and ears to hear the Spirit and the Bride when they say to YOU:

    "Come! Take the holy spirit of God... life's WATER... which water is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... free!"

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • TheOldHippie
    TheOldHippie

    AGuest - you have read your Jung, haven't you? - 'cause the essence your story was just like Jung's "Septem Sermones ad Mortuos" written some 94 years ago - only he did it just about 1,473 times better, and his sermons had insight and meaning and make sense, huuuge sense. I love Jung. Let us gi back to him, let us go back to What Is Written. Jung is Da Man.

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    What happens when you die?

    Here's a view from someone who died.

    Ian McCormack - CBN interview (Part 1 of 2)

    Ian McCormack - CBN interview (Part 2 of 2)

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    AGuest - you have read your Jung, haven't you?

    Actually, I have not, dear Old One... and peace to you!

    'cause the essence your story was just like Jung's "Septem Sermones ad Mortuos" written some 94 years ago

    Really? I truly did not know that.

    - only he did it just about 1,473 times better

    I don't doubt that - I mean, I do what I can... and I am CERTAIN it falls far below what my Lord himself would do... but I am not surprised to know that someone else "does it" better than I... even considerably...

    and his sermons had insight and meaning and make sense, huuuge sense. I love Jung.

    Well, then, excellent!

    Let us gi back to him, let us go back to What Is Written. Jung is Da Man.

    Please... feel free. "Go to" whomever you believe you need to. As for me, I will continue followinging the Lamb... wherever HE goes.

    Again, I bid you peace!

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

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