Christians: Is Military Service Wrong?

by leavingwt 116 Replies latest jw friends

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  JosephMalik

  Wonder what Cornelius position was when told to persecute Christians or un-Christ like treat Jews?

  Think about it,

  Not much different than Saul's position when told to capture and kill Christians. He did what he thought was right by fighting for the faith in fact. Even Christians do not know who really is a Christian when you come right down to it. Some so called Christians like the ones that followed James tried to Kill Paul in Jerusalem. We had problems like this in the faith all along. That is the way it was then and that is the way it is now. On another level, Watchtower witnesses are trying to kill with silence and isolation Christians among them that do not agree with them. That is their way to fight while pretending to be so-so holy.

  We should know that not every Christian slave will be selected by our Lord as a Christian disciple when their time comes. Did what Paul did to disciples mean that he was doomed? He killed good people, brothers in Christ. No! Christ knows the difference in such people. Such things can be forgiven when all circumstances are considered. The battle between the seeds did not end with our Lord's sacrifice and the need to fight for what is right goes on now as well, like it of not.

  Joseph
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  Think About It

  Wonder what Cornelius position was when told to persecute Christians or un-Christ like treat Jews?

  Think about it,

  Not much different than Saul's position when told to capture and kill Christians. He did what he thought was right by fighting for the faith in fact. Even Christians do not know who really is a Christian when you come right down to it. Some so called Christians tried to Kill Paul in Jerusalem. We had problems like this in the faith all along. That is the way it was then and that is the way it is now. On another level, Watchtower witnesses are trying to kill with silence and isolation Christians among them that do not agree with them. That is their way to fight while pretending to be so-so holy.

  We should know that not every Christian slave will be selected by our Lord as a Christian disciple when their time comes. Did what Paul did to disciples mean that he was doomed? He killed good people, brothers in Christ. No! Christ knows the difference in such people. Such things can be forgiven when all circumstances are considered. The battle between the seeds did not end with our Lord's sacrifice and the need to fight for what is right goes on now as well, like it of not.

  Ridiculous to conclude that the Bible's and Christ's thoughts on what is a Christian can easily coincide with military combat service and what history has shown this to entail. Especially, when you know the corruption of ungodly men manipulating the politics that lead to these wars.

  Now if you want to make a case that military service and unchristian war activies can be separated, then I would agree, but we all know the Christian soilder is not given that choice by his superiors.

  Think About It
• 

  JosephMalik

  Think about it,

  I stated what is true as demonstrated by scripture. You gave only your opinion strong as it is. Now the readers can make up their own minds.

  Joseph
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  Think About It

  Ridiculous to even think a person would have to pull out scripture to grasp what God's view of this matter would be. If that's what you believe then fine, but to try to "justify it as Christian" doesn't fly.
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  JWoods

  Ridiculous to even think a person would have to pull out scripture to grasp what God's view of this matter would be. If that's what you believe then fine, but to try to "justify it as Christian" doesn't fly.

  Without the scripture, you are just pushing your own judgement on another person. That is exactly what the WTS does. Your decision is your own. The other persons decision is their own.
• 

  AGuest

  Wonder what Cornelius position was when told to persecute Christians or un-Christ like treat Jews? Think about it,

  Not much different than Saul's position when told to capture and kill Christians. He did what he thought was right by fighting for the faith in fact.

  Cornelius' position was in exact OPPOSITE to that of Saul, dear JMalik (and may you have peace!), and your response is an unkind and unfounded error. It is entirely false and I offer the following so that you may "see" that:

  As to Cornelius -

  "They said, "We were sent by Cornelius, a Roman officer. He is a devout man who fears the God of Israel and is well respected by all the Jews. A holy angel instructed him to send for you so you can go to his house and give him a message. ... They arrived in Caesarea the following day. Cornelius was waiting for him and had called together his relatives and close friends to meet Peter. As Peter entered his home, Cornelius fell to the floor before him in worship. ... Peter told them, "You know it is against the Jewish laws for me to come into a Gentile home like this. But God has shown me that I should never think of anyone as impure. So I came as soon as I was sent for. Now tell me why you sent for me." Cornelius replied, "Four days ago I was praying in my house at three o'clock in the afternoon. Suddenly, a man in dazzling clothes was standing in front of me. He told me, `Cornelius, your prayers have been heard, and your gifts to the poor have been noticed by God! ... So I sent for you at once, and it was good of you to come. Now here we are, waiting before God to hear the message the Lord has given you." ... I'm sure you have heard about the Good News for the people of Israel--that there is peace with God through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. You know what happened all through Judea, beginning in Galilee after John the Baptist began preaching. And no doubt you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the Devil, for God was with him. He is the one all the prophets testified about, saying that everyone who believes in him will have their sins forgiven through his name." ... Then Peter asked, "Can anyone object to their being baptized, now that they have received the Holy Spirit just as we did?" So he gave orders for them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Afterward Cornelius asked him to stay with them for several days." Acts Chapter 10

  IF Cornelius' position was the same as Saul's, he would not only have turned Peter over to the authorities, he certainly wouldn't have invited Peter into his home OR invited him to stay for several days!

  As to Saul [of Tarsus] now known as the Apostle Paul -

  Meanwhile, Saul was uttering threats with every breath. He was eager to destroy the Lord's followers, so he went to the high priest. ... He requested letters addressed to the synagogues in Damascus, asking their cooperation in the arrest of any followers of the Way he found there. He wanted to bring them--both men and women--back to Jerusalem in chains. As he was nearing Damascus on this mission, a brilliant light from heaven suddenly beamed down upon him! He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul! Saul! Why are you persecuting me?" "Who are you, sir?" Saul asked. And the voice replied, "I am [Jesus], the one you are persecuting! Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you are to do." ... Now there was a believer in Damascus named Ananias. The Lord spoke to him in a vision, calling, "Ananias!" "Yes, Lord!" he replied. The Lord said, "Go over to Straight Street, to the house of Judas. When you arrive, ask for Saul of Tarsus. He is praying to me right now. ... "But Lord," exclaimed Ananias, "I've heard about the terrible things this man has done to the believers in Jerusalem! But the Lord said, "Go and do what I say. For Saul is my chosen instrument to take my message to the Gentiles and to kings, as well as to the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name." Acts Chapter 9

  As you can see by Luke's account, Cornelius not only accepted the Christ WITHOUT some divine manifestation (i.e., on FAITH)... but fell at the feet of a CHRISTIAN, Peter, so as to worship him! Saul, on the other hand, took the LEAD in persecuting christians and did not change his mission UNTIL he had an actual physical experience! And then, Ananias was told that Paul was to be an apostle to the Gentiles and kings... because my Lord was going to SHOW HIM... how much he was going to SUFFER... FOR my Lord's name.

  You cannot equate Cornelius' military service with Saul's persecution of christians, dear JMalik, not on any level. The two were NOT the same, by any means. Your statement is an error, dear JMalik, and out of loyalty to Cornelius, and his GOOD name... I am compelled to point that out and correct you. I mean no offense, but it is what I would want Cornelius to do for me were I to be falsely accused.

  I bid you peace.

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  PSacramento

  Jesus decided to reveal himself to Paul and in doing so, he blessed Paul and punished him al at once.

  Well...He showed Paul the errors of his way and Paul punished himself enough for the "both" of them.

  Paul was a persecuter and Cornelius was merely a soldier, Cornelius, like Shelby showed above, have faith and was justified in his faith.

  Paul was converted by a direct act and "paid" the price for it.
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  Think About It

  FIrst of all, I'll repeat...I do NOT claim to be a Christian and I am PRO military service. No need to pull out scripture to debate this. The teachings and theme of Jesus is clear on this. You cannot look at the history and politics of war and claim that the Bible clearly supports this and that "Christians" can freely be caught up in it.

  I'll telling you as a non-Christian, pro-military person you are an idiot and obviously under the control of some other cult if you think Jesus believes and teaches this ridiculous view. Separate military service and what actually happens in war and we may find some common gound on Christian morality on this issue.

  Think About It
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  PSacramento

  Jesus was a pacifist, of that there is little doubt.

  He preached peace, and tolerance and love of one's enemies.

  However, he did NOT preach against self-protection nor against protection others, why?

  Because it would be preaching against common sense.

  We protect ourselves and we protect those that need protecting.

  That SHOULD be the goal and ideals of the military.
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  JosephMalik

  Jesus was a pacifist, of that there is little doubt.

  PSacramento,

  Not Quite but I know what it seems to look like in many texts. Pacifism is the opposition to war or violence as a means of settling disputes or gaining advantage (wilkopedia). In the case of our Lord we know that not only did He make his own weapons when needed: Joh 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers‘ money, and overthrew the tables; 16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise. 17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up. But used violence as a means of settling this dispute acting as both judge, jury and executioner. Just because our Lord was not inducted into the military does not mean that He opposed such use of power by governments to execute justice or maintain order. Jesus gave us another example like this:
  
  Matt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. Jesus fully expected families to be at odds over Him. Now with such deep emotions in play would someone that was a stranger trying to kill such faith keepers get a pass because this Christian was a Pacifist? What good would the swords He authorized for us to have be if we just kept them sheathed and did not use them. So the discussion is more to the point that Jesus did not get personally involed in something like the military but on the other hand we know that when He returns again the death of such men evil or opposed to the faith will be part of His mission . Matt 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

  Joseph