by isaacaustin 56 Replies latest jw friends
Rays thought processes are just so simple and pure arent they? Gotta love the guy. He SAVED ME, saved my kids...saved my life. How do you repay that? By living the life that was given back to you and helping others get free too.
Love you and Cindy Ray...would you mind staying around forever? Or at least until the WTS comes down on itself like the Trade Towers?
I was tempted not to make the following comment however I seem to be reading a lot about how great Ray is (I don't know the guy so I don't mean this comment to sound personal): Whilst I am sympathetic to Ray and found Crisis of Conscience very interesting, it took him a long time to raise serious objections as far as I can see and his major objections became public after he has been disfellowshipped. Whilst I would not seek to undermine Ray's work which has doubtless helped very many, it ought perhaps to be weighed against the years he spent at the highest levels within the WTS supporting and directing an organisation which has caused many to suffer. The most we can do in situations like this is to work to correct the harm we have caused or been a party to however some of the gushing comments I see seem, under the circumstances, over to the top to me.
It is good to see so many leaving the organisation from positions of seniority. It is great that they are prepared to speak so clearly and honestly however surely they also have a greater degree of culpability in the harm caused?
Sometimes we come to realizations of something wrong in stages or phases. Sometimes with more experience, which includes more, (or higher) position, one becomes more aware of the power controls and how that works. That was the case for Ray. He was young as a devout JW. He and Cynthia were very devout missionaries. They loved that work.
Then, he was called into Bethel and very much a researcher for the WTS. He became a Governing Body member. That position is not always "equal." He was the "new boy," aware of the "old boys" seniority (and power). He tried to bring issues to the other GB and some would accept some of Ray's concerns "to a degree," having a 'winking' agreement. However, in an effort to share doctrinal issues to review, he was met more with resistance. There is that stage that many of us felt/hoped that in time certain things would change and improve. Only thing is, once we come to the realization stage to question, then we start realizing how powerless what is "right" exists in such circles already established.
Ray kept questioning and trying, and that became very threatening to the "old boys." Eventually, it became aware to Ray he could no longer just accept the stance of the Governing Body, an internal crisis grew and he realized he could not change anything important, not even slowly. Therefore, I do respect Ray. Life is ever changing. There are phases in life and changes in history. When the need for change is evident, how do we respond. Do we fight again the needed change or do we move on to what is right. That is the personal 'tight-rope' balance, do we 'balance in one spot (which can work for awhile but can be precarious with time) or do we 'cross over?'
Hi Gayle
I agree with your comments. I am in no position to judge Ray or anyone else for that matter. It was the gushing tone of some of the comments that caught my attention that is all. I certainly respect the fact that Ray has spent so much energy and time making the secret workings known.
I'll say this again and again. I wrote to Ray a number of years ago and asked him if the Bible was really inspired of God. His answer in a nutshell was, it is a leap of faith.
He believes it is because of his life experiences. However, he said that each one must evaluate their own life's experiences and then the rest you take on faith.
He said that we do that every day of our lives, we take a lot things on faith not just the Bible.
For me history shows that the Bible is a product of man's history, written by many diverse believers who changed the Bible and so many mistakes were made in recreating the text from it's original greek.
No original manuscripts have been preserved to this day . they are all copies of copies hand me downs through the ages.
How can I have faith in that?
Blueblades
The Society i believe taught that the sign was invisible seen by the eyes of faith. The sign of Matt. 24:3 had it's fulfillment in verse 30. Which was Christ coming in before the ancient of days and recieving his kingship in 1914. There was a visible composite sign seen almost as the effects of this, nation against nation, with the heavens being cleansed of the Devil.
The Society now teach we have not seen the sign of verse 30. Although evidently millions had. The Society also brought out in the "things of which it is impossible to lie" book that the word "Sign" has a meaning of standard. Like the Roman armies would raise. In other words it seemed he didnt tell you what the sign was as the angels would gather you anyway.
I had correspondence with Ray and Cynthia when I was coming out in 96. It was how REAL he is and he lived through and saw the corruption that is the foundation of this organization. They are gracious and humble people and never hesitate to reach out and help others. His having BOTHERED to write this book, regardless of his timing, saved my family from the maw of this cult. Gushing is the least I can do about him and it pales in comparison to what he has given us all.
It was a careful reading of Matthew 24 , on my own, with no Watchtower "goggles" on, that started me on my way to a fade, I was convinced that the Wt had totally twisted what was said there.
I am now with Terry, since we do not know what was said, or even what was written in the original Gospels, we cannot pontificate about it, we do not have autograph copies, and even if we did, these would be the faulty memory of men writing decades after the events.
So, to argue over every "Jot and tittle" is pointless.
It still amazes me though, that if I want to , I can destroy every doctrine and argument of the WT using their own faulty scriptures !
They are such chumps !
Love
Wobble
Ray let the world know that the watchtower society made doctrinal decisions on a 2/3 majority vote. Just that one little piece of information is priceless.
Whilst I would not seek to undermine Ray's work which has doubtless helped very many,
Then you proceed to undermine him and his work????????
