Just don't know what to do.

by Weeping 74 Replies latest jw friends

  • bohm

    Weeping: Iwe lived my entire life outside the organization and so has all my family and i can surely tell you its plain wrong when you write "there is no life"!

    Im sorry you couldnt cut it in the real world back when you tried the last time, but this happends to many in their early 20's when they dont have the proper guidance from family and friends or just get in the wrong company. As to the JW's being the most loving and kind people - im not going to tell you that the average jw is evil or unloving, but they do teach some things that make them behave very badly. One of those is disfellowshipping and forgive me for being direct, do you feel that doctrine is loving or not?

  • truman


    You say that you were out 'in the world' during your 20s and returned in 1977. That would seem to put you at about the same age as me, the mid-fifties. This is a time of life when people seem to reach a crossroads of sorts. Some decide to hunker down and live the rest of their lives in the same quiet desperation they have been living for decades because to change seems too difficult or threatening. Others examine the foundations of their lives and see the need for growth.

    I think you should consider carefully how productive it is to evaluate your future on the basis of what you experienced as a twenty-something 'rebellious' JW. What you describe of your life with drugs and Satanists is not typical of life outside the Watchtower organization. Such a scenario is not the only alternative to clinging to JW beliefs that have obviously ceased to serve you.

    JW thinking sees issues in only two dimensions: Either one is a loyal servant of Jehovah or one is cast into outer darkness with the Satan worshippers. This is a false dichotomy. Those are not the only two options. Sometimes young JWs, unprepared to deal with the pressures of life outside the mind control, or striving to carve out an independent identity, do behave in extreme or personally destructive ways when they leave the controls of JW life. But you are not a twenty-year-old. You are a mature adult who has a mind and a sense of moral ethics that are your personal possession-not the property of the Watchtower Society. Neither is your faith in God or the Bible a property of the JWs. Whether you keep that or not is up to you. 'The world' has no agenda to convert you to atheism.

    I am struck by your assertion that "the world is a dangerous place" and "there is no love outside the organization." These sentiments are the thoughts of those who weekly program you to fear anything outside the tight boundaries of JW thinking and life. These stock JW phrases are thought-stopping mantras that keep the bound self from seeking answers to questions that seem too dangerous to ask. Yes, there are dangers out in the world, but they are the same dangers everyone alive faces. And as for there being no love outside the organization, that is certainly not my experience. Many here, I am sure, will tell you that they have seen far more love from so-called worldly people that they have from JWs.

    You have taken a step. You have reached out to post on a board where you can ask any question and have any opinion, something you cannot do in the WT Organization. I remember nine years ago, when I first posted here, scared to pieces about what I would face as I began to look at life outside the confines of JW thinking. What I have found is a path to personal growth which I could not have imagined I would ever achieve. Just keep talking, listening, and thinking.

  • Paulapollos

    Dear Weeping,

    I read your post with interest. Please forgive me if I have this totally wrong, but from what you say about love, that is the primary thing that is keeping you in? I'm not sure that you mean that the Witnesses must be God's people, because they love each other? I'm not sure if that is your point?

    Anyway it seems to me that if that is the case, then perhaps what you mean is that the love that the Witnesses show to you, the support that they give to you, the atmosphere of trust, mutual strength, is very important to you. In essence, maybe you have a strong support network, and that keeps you there? If that is the case, then I think that you are right to think twice before you start to either drift or walk away. It can take years to build relationships that you are comfortable with. In that case, if you do not wish to endanger that network, then be very careful whom you voice your doubts to. Sadly, the love is conditional - if you are branded as an "enemy" by the Witnesses, because you may not fully agree with some doctrine, then you will find that Jesus' command to love your enemies is not followed. I don't wish that upon you, believe me. Also, if you do not wish to endanger your support network, then I really would say to you that the internet, and sites such this, are not for you. There are facts on here, research and history regarding the WT and other things, that will utterly undermine your confidence in the claim that JW are God's only organisation. If you don't want to be torn in two, by knowing facts that fatally wound the WT. then, and I say this with love - don't expose yourself to them! People on these sites are generally very friendly and loving - but I'm sure you agree that it is not fair for you to expect them not to say things that will undermine your confidence - after all, you are on the website of your own volition, and you know how many people here feel.

    On the other hand, if you do decide to leave, you will find that your statement - "there is no love outside the organisation" - is a complete and utter fabrication. I respect the fact that your experiences may have convinced you that people "outside" are not loving and supportive. With the greatest respect, that is just your experience. You could say that 7 million Witnesses agree, it's not just you. But there are far more people outside, who utterly disagree. If you want the criteria as to who holds the correct view as an exercise in numbers, then I think you know who would win. And since the Bible says "if a man praises himself, is it really praise", the Witnesses telling you how loving we all are, and how it proves how special we are, with God's blessing...I think the Bible verse above says it all.

    As for your point about atheists, that is another discussion. Suffice to say that if you fear you would forget your Creator, that reflects more on you and your relationship with God, then on anyone else. Remember, Jesus said - "out of your own heart come...reasonings".

    I hope I have not offended you in any way, and if I have, please accept my apologies. No offence is meant. I know that many people on here would wish you all the best. I certainly do.



  • carpediem

    Weeping, welcome to the forum.

    There are people in the 'world' like those bad pictures in the jw publications. It seems like you left the org and fell into such a crowd. The org paint a bad picture of what people are like who arent jws. In my opinion they describe a minority group. However, there is this big world out there of loving, kind and caring people. The kind of people who will still love you even if you dont want to be in their religion anymore.

    I would consider myself almost atheist. The jury is out at the moment. I am still reading, researching, meditating, for want of a better word. Dont assume that people are atheist through lack of Bible knowledge. It was my abundant Bible knowledge that helped me change my views. The elders of my old cong think I became an unbeliever because of missing meetings and lack of association. In actual fact I became an unbeliever sitting right there in the kingdom hall each week thinking 'you must be joking, that cannot be right'.

    I suggest you spend some time on here and ask questions. Also, if you can, try reading Richard Dawkins book 'The Greatest Show on Earth'. It explains much about evolution. His book 'The God Delusion' is also an excellent read.


  • chickpea

    surely you dont hold the belief that everyone
    outside the WTS is a satanist, do you?

    maybe your choice of "friends" was a little (a lot)
    too far on the other end of the pendulum swing?

    what possessed you ?

    i categorically refute your assertions that there is
    no love outside the organization or that the org is
    filled with the kind, loving people...

    your thinking seems very black and white, either/or

  • OnTheWayOut

    Your words: I disagree on some doctrine with the organisation.

    If you are a baptized JW:
    The rules say that you must tell the elders. They will decide if you need a study or need to be disfellowshipped or disassociated.
    The rules say that you need to tell the elders about all the sins you committed with drugs/drinking/sex/tobacco.

    You would not be allowed to keep your "WT-defined" sins to yourself. The cong. must be clean. You are not allowed to disagree with the doctrine at all. If you are not baptized, then you must conform before it takes place. If you don't conform and don't get baptized, then they will explain how you might be destroyed at Armageddon with the rest of the non-JW's.

    I don't believe that good people in such a harsh organization are guided by holy spirit. There are many many good Mormons and Muslims and Hindus, but I don't agree with some of the doctrines in their beliefs.

  • I quit!
    I quit!

    I don't see them as the kindest most loving people on the earth some of them are but the fact is most of them will drop you as if you were dead the minute you disagree with the organization. Witnesses don't feed the poor or homeless. They don't build hospitals. They hand out magazines for a publishing company. I think you have fallen for the line they give you "where are we to go". Leaving the WT doesn't have to mean getting getting drunk, taking drugs and stealing. Only if you want it to be that way. Many here go to school to get an education. Get involved in charity work. Find a nice church that allows them to think and be involved in their community. If you can't see the good many non-JWs do it is only because you are ingoring it and looking at the world through the eyes of the Watchtower. You don't need the Watchtower to be a good person. What kind of a person you are is your choice.

    You mentioned people you have seen here who leave the WT and become atheist almost as if they are doing it to get back at God or the Watchtower. People who don't believe in a god can't force themselves to any more than someone can force themself to not believe in God. People come to different conclusion. What I believe in is constantly being revised. When someone gets free of a control group like the Watchtower they start to develope they're own conclusion instead having a prepackaged group belief.

    By coming here you are showing that you can think for yourself. Keep it up and eventually you will learn to enjoy it.

  • snowbird

    Welcome, Weeping.

    My hope is that this will be your experience.

    Psalm 30:5 The nights of crying your eyes out
    give way to days of laughter. MSG



  • nelly136

    if you've lived a clean life all these years, then there is no concievable reason why you couldnt continue to do so with or without the jw stuff.

  • jamiebowers

    The "kindest, most loving people on earth" don't shun others for simply disagreeing with them, and the holy spirit isn't with them. Here and in the "world" you will find people who can care about you but disagree with you on spiritual matters. Keep reading and posting. You'll come to accept acceptance on many levels.

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