I need answers to so MANY questions.....

by Confuzzled 74 Replies latest jw friends

  • yknot
    yknot

    Ask and you shall receive.....

    Where did they get the idea of Jesus being Michael the Arch-Angel?..............Judge Rutherford, man who many view as the founder of the JWs

    How many times can you change doctorines?..................As many times as they deem needed.

    Ok , so God, they thought lived in the Pleilades star system, but now they don’t believe that! Where did they get that in the first place?.........Book of Job interpretation by Charles Taze Russell

    They name Jehovah was inserted over 200 times in the new Testament in places it didn’t even translate too. BTW why does your Bible sound like mine, but very disjointed and fragmented in places?.........................Fred Franz did so intentionally to make it biased to his POV

    Is it true the 144,000 are not Jewish people, but a select few (when I asked the man I’m seeing how they pick the “anointed ones, his response was, “Oh, they just know. I’ve met a few, they are unbelievable people)....................................I suppose some could be of Jewish ancestory

    If they are so good and blessed among other men, why did one of the Governing Body get charged with sexual misconduct .................professing anointing is a part of Bethel politics. Leo wasn't legally charged, but was forced to resign and cast upon the masses as a Special Pioneer (SP).

    Theocratic Warfare, how can you justify that...............................need to know basis determined by entitlement to said information, followed by this is 'Satan's System' and 1914's casting of Satan to earth and warring with the remnant.

    Better yet they say if you give a man a fish he eats for a day, but if you teach him how to fish he survives by his own hand......

    So why not download the 2008 WT-CD ...... JWN poster Fabrico has a download on his blog www.watchtowerlibrary.blogspot.com

    Here is the direct link to the English version: http://watchtowerlibrary.blogspot.com/2009/10/watchtower-library-2008-english.html

    Check your PM (private messages).....just click on the envelope in the right hand corner of the page next to your username....

  • jamiebowers
    jamiebowers

    All jw beliefs are/were formulated by the governing body of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.

    Even if you convert and get baptized, it won't be enough...they'll want your child too. If you have custody of her, it would be impossible for you to allow her to attend church with your dad. And to top it off, there are organizational rules in place that will protect any pedophiles that she may happen to encounter in the jw congregation.

    Usually I advise non-jws to leave a jw lover. But since you have a child, I am begging you to run as fast as you can away from this guy until he is totally out of the cult. Google Jehovah's Witnesses and child molestation, and center your research on that subject. If that's not enough, pm me, and I'll give you true life experiences of the abuse that exists in the borg.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    This guy is having a relapse into a cult religion. Most of us, here are excultist, or is that recovering cultists? We know the jw teachings really well, also where and why lots of them are wrong. We are a mix of atheist, christian, spiritualist, agnostic, and just ordinay people.

    S

  • AudeSapere
    AudeSapere
    confuzzled wrote: another woman who got disfellowshipped because she had a child out of wedlock, after 25 years of faithful service, who wouldn't tell me anything other then "My own mother won't see me or my son, what do you think I'm going to tell you?"

    Just those two lines should tell you alot about the organization. Doesn't sound very christian-like, does it?? Cutting someone out of your life at a time when you are MOST needed. And refusal to see and/or bond with an innocent grandchild.

    In this story, the mother's reason's are: 1. she is told to by the elders; 2. she believes that cutting off the daughter will cause the daughter to feel guilty and/or remorseful and come back into the org; 3. the org does not want the shame of having a promiscuous woman and bastard child in their ranks so she was kicked out and the cong can brag to everyone how 'clean' they are.

    Under the clean and bright dressy clothes and past the gilded bibles, they are just people who allow others to tell them what to think and who to play with.

    It's a high-control group that controls many aspects of people's lives. It may not be as overt as 'People's Temple', but make no mistake. MANY have already laid down their lives in service obedience to the vascillating directives of the Governing Body. They thought their sacrifices were for god, but the sad truth is that they actually did it for men. And ignorrant men at that.

    Be ware. Ask more questions. There are many here who can give you good info and personal insight.

    BTW - Does it trouble you that your bf is so staunch in his belief that this organization is 'true' and 'right' but he cannot explain 'why' to you. I think that may be sign of 'blind faith'. Not a good quality, imo. Whether it's lazinesss to do the research himself (to convince himself and you) or just not wanting to rock the boat with mommy and daddy, maybe step back for a moment and try to understand why he can't answer your questions himself and is so reluctant to make a stand and go with you to where he believes the answers can be found.

    Welcome to JWN. You will find this to be a great resource as you try to sort out your own real feelings and understanding about the religion.

    -Aude Sapere (meaning: Dare to Know; Dare to Have Wisdom/Understanding; Dare to Think for Yourself)

  • nameless_one
    nameless_one

    Welcome, Confuzzled. I know your story all too well.

    I too was raised Episcopalian. I too got involved with a "lapsed JW" man. I too got the constant runaround about valid questions, and the pleading to talk with other JWs who could "answer better" (do NOT agree to that btw). And I too came to this board and others seeking help and advice.

    Here is my advice to you, harsh and blunt but the best advice you will receive: RUN. Run like the freaking wind and don't look back.

    The only way this has a chance in hell of turning out well for you is if your man wakes up and sees the WTS for exactly what it is. There is no in-between. There is no escape for him unless he SEES and REALIZES that it is a cult and a sham and NOT the truth. Anything less than that, you are sitting on a powder keg. And that is a process much more easier said than done.

    When I first came here, people told me to run. They told me to get out, they told me how these things end up 99% of the time, they told me exactly what I'm telling you. I didn't listen. My man was different; he was on the fence; he was so great in so many ways, there was just this "one issue" and I was sure I could help him see the light. I spent 6 years of my life trying to wake him up. SIX YEARS. He didn't wake up. I finally got some sense and left. And it was a nightmare. It still is a nightmare -- a lot of damage has been done, and finally extracting myself from this has been difficult to say the least (this coming from someone who never set foot in a KH, never bought into the lie in any way, but just attempted to extract someone else from it).

    I rarely post here, or anywhere, anymore because my life has become very difficult since trying to walk away from this mess. I made good friends in this community whom I miss very much (you know who you are -- I miss and love you guys), but I've lost even that now because of the complete disaster this cult and one of its "lapsed followers" has made of my life. I'm posting to your thread because I see myself in you and truly hope you will be smarter than I was and RUN while it's still early. If you never have to suffer through what I did, you won't fully understand the bullet you dodged but believe me your life will be so much better for it.

    My heart goes out to you (and your child!! if you need another reason to run away fast, there it is. Your child will not come out unscathed if you marry this man). I expect you might do what I did -- think you can fix it, want to try, then try and try and try. Please don't make the mistakes I did. Read everything you can get your hands on about what this cult really does to people, and BELIEVE what you read. Your man is not different -- so long as he believes it is the "truth," he is not different. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for your child.

    Sorry to be harsh, but the best and only advice I can give you is RUN, the sooner the better.

  • Confuzzled
    Confuzzled

    Thank you all very much! I realize this system of beliefs is diametrically opposed to almost every I have always held in truth. I did a little perusing of SilentLambs.com and I know about the sexual abuse, it is no better then the Catholic situation, but I'm a she-wolf with my daughter and she is not allowed to be alone with males (i.e. I normally don't leave her alone with males, especially single males that I don't know, I have a 50 something, single, never had a real relationship with a woman, uncle who I don't allow her much contact with because I just don't know, ect.)

    You all have been very helpful. The only thing that really even had me considering this was that the simple lifestyle of Bible worship and the traditional role of wmen in the family was very appealing.

    All that being said, I'm pretty smart and my b*ll sh*t meter is off the charts on this one, and I have a rebellious spirit and heart. To quote my step-mother "I give you living a lie about a month before your jumping on tables calling everybody a self-righteous pompous ass, or a hypocrite. You'll be storming out of meetings, or if you don't do that, hiding your iPod up your sleeve like a kid."

  • Out at Last!
    Out at Last!

    First of all, welcome to the forum. I disagree with most of what the others have said. If he has family in the cult they can influence him greatly, but you need to ask him why he quit going to the meetings. If he had doubts about the beliefs, do your research and talk about their beliefs. Make sure that it just the two of you. He can tell you what he believes, or what the WT teaches, and you can show him what you found, or the two of you can look together what others say, or read Crisis of Conscience together. If he is agreeable to this, you may be able to break his tie to this cult.

    If he will not agree to this, or stops mid way through the process, I would advise you to leave him. If he wants to stick to the WT and it's teachings, it will only bring problems and hurt in the future. If he cares as much for you as you do for him, it should be a no brainer, but you have to ask yourself, do you want to spend the time to try to convince him? If so, try it, if not, get out now.

    Others have given you some sound advice, do not get involved in this religion. What is your gut feeling, stay and try to make it work, or leave? Only you can answer that. We will be here in the future to advise you if you want it, but you will get many varied opinions. Ultimately it is up to you to decide what actions you need to take.

    Wishing you all the best.

    O a L!

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    Hello, and welcome to the board,

    As I read your post, you sound a lot like me when I met my JW wife back in 2002. I knew very little about them back then and the web did not have as much information as it does now. Not that I was looking, at least not in 2002. Personally, if I had known then what I know now, I doubt I would be married to her today. Not that our marraige has been bad, in fact, we've had a pretty good marraige in spite of our problems with most of them not really related to the religion. In fact, her JW parents and the elder at the Kingdom Hall she attends were very helpful and nice to us over the years. I just think that if I even had a clue about some of the things they taught concerning 1914, the fact that they think only they have the truth, and that all other churches are influenced by Satan, I think our relationship would not have lasted the questioning I am giving her now.

    Personally, I think you would be better off setting him free and looking for someone else who beliefs are closer to your own. However, I've been with someone who I really loved (or so I thought) in spite of her abrasiveness towards me and what I believed. This, even though I was very tolerant of her beliefs while I disagreed with them. I'm not speaking of my wife in this instance but another woman who I met in the spring of 1999 and almost married during the summer. She was Catholic (in name only) and dabbled in the occult. My wife, in contrast, was a very warm, sincere individual who had a love for God and the Bible. Frankly, I felt as if I had found the woman of my dreams (and I still do though our love has been tempered). So in some way, I can understand why you may feel like you really want to work it out with this man. Though I still think it will be better if you didn't for reasons that I am about to illustrate.

    Shortly after my wife and I moved in together and just before she and I married, I took her to a church that I was thinking of attending. I recall her looking at the windows of it where it had the glass images of Jesus and saying, "My mom said that these things were idols." When I asked how so? She said that people in churches worship these images. (UM, NO WE DON'T!) I tried to explain to her nicely how we do no such thing but she would not comprehend. Then the holidays came, she had been celebrating them with me before we move in together and got married. However, I would remember every year her saying that, "God is going to kill me!" I would ask her why and she would say, "Because I am doing something he hates, I am enjoying Christmas." To say how dumbfounded I was was an understatement. I mean, I knew Jehovah's Witnesses did not celebrate the holidays but I did not know that they took such a morbid attitude about celebrating them. I just thought they were like a friend of mine who was a witness at the time I met my wife (she's out of it now ) and that she would just give gifts to her son but call them friendship gifts and not put up a tree or hang decorations.

    I was taught for many years prior to getting involved with my JW wife that the religion is false and, depending on who was telling me about them, they were a cult. However, I wanted to find out for myself so I agreed to have "Bible study" sessions with them from 2003 to about 2007. They seemed like they really knew their Bible and they were able to answer so many of my questions "from the Bible." Still, though, I knew something wasn't quite right because the broad generalizations that they made of Christendom's churches just did not seem to fit my personal experiences with the Christian community. Plus there were a few things that they taught that did not seem to make since. Their 1914 teaching was one in particular that I could not seem to accept because I was always taught that Jesus said that no one would know the day of his coming, except the Father alone. Still though, I did not give much thought to the religion and was actually beginning to accept some of their theology. It was okay because I was taking part in things she thought highly of and she was taking part in things I thought highly of (holiday celebrations). She was even attending church with me.

    Fast forward to today, after my wife threw a big birthday party for our daughter, she decided that she no longer wanted to celebrate the holidays and birthdays anymore. It gave her no pleasure anymore so she felt like it was no longer worth it. Plus she wanted to rid herself of the guilt and wanted to 'get back in God's good graces.' At the same time, she also decided that she no longer wanted to attend church with me, saying that she was tired of being confused and wanted to just stick with what she felt was the truth. I felt like a part of me died when she made that choice and I began to wonder if she did indeed have the truth, and if she did, I was going to die. To say I was depressed was an understatement, I remember crying in the bathroom at work because I was torn between the life I was satisfied with and wanting to know if indeed I understood what the true religion really was. I remember telling my wife that perhaps she was right and maybe I too should become a JW. They certainly know how to present their religion as a true religion, they've done their homework when it came to how to counter questions from Christians in general and show Bible verses to back up their claims.

    However, after a deep prayer with God and a reading of the Bible, I began to see that something wasn't right. You asked about the 144,000, so did I and when I read it in the Bible alone, I could not make the connection with the 144,000 JEWS in the Bible with the 144,000 "annointed Christians" that the Watchtower speaks about. Upon further research, I learned that the 144,000 could either be taken wholly figurative or wholly literal. The Watchtower takes the number literally and the people figuratively (spiritual Israel a.k.a. JW's) which is an error. Even though the witnesses believe they are the only true Christians (which is also not true), if they applied the wholly figurative interpretation of the 144,000 to themselves, then all witnesses would be partaking at the memorials. This is currently not the case as they interpret the scripture errorneously.

    Some other things you may want to consider if you decide to continue in a relationship with this man.

    Their blood doctrine in wrong, murderous, and very hypocritical. See my post concerning the blood doctrine debate I had with my wife. Your potential husband will consider himself the head of the household. If heaven forbid something should happen to one of your children that will require a blood transfusion, he will insist that your child does not take any blood. EVEN IF YOUR CHILD DIES AS A RESULT. He may say that he will respect your wishes, but he will be under pressure from the Society to CONFORM to their teachings.

    As others may have pointed out (or not), he will insist that as the head that your children should be required to go to all Kingdom Hall meetings. While my wife allows (and even encourages) my daughter to participate in sports, I have a strong suspicion that once she makes her "goal" to become baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the spirit directed organization, (see this also) she will probably come under pressure to bring my daughter to more meetings and sacrifice her extra-currcular activities.

    He will also want to read books that discourage participating in holidays with your children. These books also teach the children about Armaghedon and teach that all non-witnesses (a.k.a. you) will not survive it into the new system.

    And he will probably dismiss all of your own beliefs and questioning as your personal opinions and may even label them in a negative way.

    In short, he may be a wonderful man. I can certainly say that my wife is wonderful. But I would seriously heed that scripture concerning becoming unevenly yoked.

  • jamiebowers
    jamiebowers
    The only thing that really even had me considering this was that the simple lifestyle of Bible worship and the traditional role of wmen in the family was very appealing.

    But jws don't follow the Bible or worship God; they follow and worship the governing body of the WB&TS. And their view of women is appalling. Get back on the silent lambs website and read the experiences under battered lambs...the women who have been beaten and raped by their jw husbands.

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    Confuzzled,

    Check out my you tube channel and view my list of favorites, I linked the entire movie "Witnesses of Jehovah" on there (all seven parts). It is an old movie, but still very accurate. Also check out my you tube subscriptions.

    Gary

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