by javig 304 Replies latest watchtower bible
JD, my views in regards to the OT and the Old covenant have always been very plainly stated, Paul said it best and I am paraphrasing:
If the OC had worked, there would have been no need for a new one.
Thw writers of the OT, with some exception like Isiah, had NO idea who God was and what God wanted, they did howver liek using God to justify the crap they did and that was doen to them.
May you have peace!
I am almost laughing because you are obviously coping and pasting whats being dictate to you.
Well, you are partially correct – someone is dictating to me: the Holy Spirit. However, the only thing cut and pasted was the definitions for the Greek words. You are quite welcome to look them up yourself. One quick way is through www.blueletterbible.org. You simply type in the verse you want and when it comes up click on the “C” to the left (which will take you to a Concordance/Interlinear. Then click on the particular Hebrew/Greek word. The definition (as far as earthling man has been able to figure out) will then appear…
I really don't believe you are actually researching on your own to find truth.
Researching what? There is nothing I CAN “research” to find truth. I can only ASK God to send him to me. And He did. So that HE… the Truth… came to ME. Thus, I’ve found him.
You can not find truth from what others are lieing about, you must find the truth and God yourself alone. When we die, there is no book or guidance to help you find the way, we will all be alone.
I agree I cannot find the Truth from what others say, whether it be true or a lie. I found him… or rather, was found BY him… when God brought him to me… and drew me to him. I totally agree with you, that there is no book to help us find him (the Way)… now… or when we die. And it is the Truth himself that guides me… and will guide me [to the place under the altar]… should I die before he returns.
There can be only one God, no others, not even gods. This is where JW's and XJW's go wrong, unless you know the truth themselves, not told it. Isaiah 43: 10-12 Which ever Bible you want to use, the message is true.
"Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior. No other god, before of after, no other savior. "
I totally agree with you, to the extent you are talking about an Almighty God, the TRUE God. And that is what I was trying to explain to those here: there is only ONE God… the Father. However, the GREEK word “theos,” which is used throughout the NT does indicate a “god”… in the sense of an IMMORTAL being. Spirits. And so, in that sense, there are MANY “gods”… including Satan. He, too, is an immortal. But I agree with you that there is but ONE God.
As to your interpretation regarding there being no savior “apart” from Him… I think you are making the same mistake as many others do/have… and that is (1) not listening to the Spirit as to the TRUTH of this scripture, and (2) not looking at the scripture itself, which I think we should do. The modern English transliterates the Hebrew as follows:
“I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour.”
You should note, that where entries are made in brackets, such have almost always been ADDED… to help the translators (scribes) make some kind of sense of the verse. If we REMOVE those bracketed items, however, we have the original Hebrew:
“I, I, the LORD; and beside me no saviour.”
But even that isn’t totally accurate. The HEBREW words at Isaiah 43:12 were:
“I, JHVH (and not YHWH) bil`adey yasha`”
… which means…
“I am JaH VeH and there is no savior BESIDE me.”
NOT, “there is no savior ‘besides ME.’” And this is TRUE… because the One who was to sit BESIDE Him… at His RIGHT HAND… had not been installed yet.
Think then...who is Jesus now? Is he not a savior, if he is then he is of God, if not then he's nothing.
He (JahEshua) IS indeed the Savior… and he IS indeed of God. I never said anything different… anywhere.
Do I need to pull out the Hebrew scripture word for word, to point out the terrible translation (or lie)?
It might be beneficial for you to do that from time to time, since it appears you don't have the necessary faith required to hear the Spirit on this matter. But since I have been directed by the Spirit to do that for you, this time, perhaps you might condescend to look at it, again…
Lets not forget, if you know, that the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew was pronounced "Adonai" in the plural form not singular, which literally means "Lord, lord, lord".
The Tetragrammaton was NOT pronounced “Adonai,” dear one. Those aren't even the right letters. That term was added by those who didn’t know the MOST Holy One’s name… and didn’t want to speculate and risk profaning that name. So, they used a title (“Lord”) instead.
The name of God is not what you think it is...who are you to say that is the name, did you ask him yourself and he told you that?
Yes, He did. It is one of the, well, 5 times now, that I have heard the voice of the MOST Holy One of Israel… JAH of Armies… Himself. All other times, it is my Lord, His Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHJAH. And that One told me HIS name: JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH.
Or did some German monk tell you that some 600 years ago, that didn't even know how to speak the ancient language? He wouldn't even tell Moses what his name was, he told him it was "I am". And Moses was the only one who had seen God.
Not quite, dear one. He told Moses that His name was “JAH… of Armies.” And Moses didn’t actually see the Father, at least, not His face; he saw my Lord in the “burning” bush… and a rearview of JAH… as the MOST Holy One of Israel passed before the rock in which Moses was hidden…
This is only the truth, from what we can read, and I wish some people in the world didn't pervert the good news to satisfy their own greed of power and money.
The ONLY Truth… is Christ. (“I… am the Way… AND THE TRUTH… and the Life”). I also wish some didn’t write, translate, publish… sell… and PUSH Bibles… only to satisfy THEIR own greed of power… money… and self-righteousness. I wish… they would all just exercise a little more FAITH… so as to HEAR the One who speaks from the heavens… THE Holy Spirit… and let THAT ONE lead them… into ALL truth.
But… my wishing doesn’t make it so. It is GOD, the MOST Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the Father of my Lord, JAH of Armies… who draws such ones… and it is through His Son and Christ, my Savior, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, that such ones must go through.
BUT… you don’t have to take MY word for it; indeed, you need only ASK… and EXERCISE FAITH in what you HEAR… yourself.
I bid you peace… and ears to hear the Spirit and the Bride, which keep saying… even to YOU: “Come! Take life’s water… the holy spirit of God… His active life force, blood, breath, and semen… all of which are poured out from the innermost part of His Son and Christ, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH… FREE!”
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
Again, peace to you!
I totally GET whay you are saying. Many feel as you do, it's understandable. For ME, however, I can no more deny the God that had a Covenant with fleshly Israel, which Covenant was mediated by Moses... and canonized in the "Old Testament" portion of the Bible... any more than I can deny the God that now has a Covenant with me, which Covenant is mediated by Christ. I CAN... and WILL... , however, deny the lies and false teachings about Him that the scribes have included in their version(s) of that "testament."
So, while I deny the "works" they attribute to Him... which they wickedly used to "scare" and hold dominion over their fellowmen, servants, and enemies, I can't deny that the God of the OLD Covenant/Testament... is the same as the God of the NEW Covenant/Testament. Sorry, I just can't do it. My task is NOT to deny that He is my God... but to BEAR WITNESS TO THE TRUTH about Him... just as my Lord did and is teaching me to do.
I hope that YOU "get" what I am saying and, as always, I bid you peace!
YOUR servant and fellow slave of Christ,
SA
Aguest,
Yes I get what you are saying and that is what basically I was saying also.
The God of the OT, the one that the prohets wrote about, the loving God and merciful God, that is THE God and the Father of Our Lord Jesus.
The horrifc acts attributed to God are just what misinfomed people chose to write.
I don't deny MY OT God, I do deny the genocidal God written by some in the OT.
That is why I do NOt use Jehovah ( that and because it is NOT his name), because that terms is associated with an OT God that I want nothing to do with, THAT is the God of the WT and that is why they use that term.
I do NOT view the God that is WRITTEN in the OT as my God,
I'm not talking about the new or old covenant but this statement. There is only one God but you speak as though it are two. How can you find fault with the so-called "genocidal" God Jehovah but believe in Armagedon which Jesus will have a big part in?
JD,
I do not believe that all that was attributed to God in the OT was God' will and command, I find that very hard, if not immposiible to reconsile with what Jesus teaches about Our father.
We know from everyday life and history how much was done in God's name and continues to be done in God's name, that is NOT in God's name, it makes sense that was the case in the past when inexcusabel acts were commited and "OK'd" in God's name or even done by God.
As for Armegedon, well, lets just say I put very little stock in armagedon, in fact I couldn't care less about it at all.
I have no fear of God or my Lord Jesus, I do nothing out of fear so whatever armagedon may be, if it is anythign at all, means very little to me.
Learn something before quickly responding...
"I Am"
Exodus 3:14
Hebrew word: 
Pronounced: aeie (first 4 letters only, the whole thing says "I am who I am")
Means: I-shall-become (Mondern English its "I Am")
dear one...
Genesis 2:4
Tetragrammaton first appears in scripture: 
Pronounced: Adonai (Adon is singular form for Lord)
Means: Lord, lord, lord
The reason why Hebrews pronounce the Tetragrammaton as "Adonai" is because the name of God is to be kept sacred, not even Jesus spoke the name, so it was safe and understood by them to say "Lords", and you can not pronounce YHVH (letter for letter) nor can you fill in the gaps with Latin vowels. By the way, the "Y" in YHVH is for the Hebrew letter Yod, not with a J such as you think.
Your answer to the German monk some 600 years ago who falsely translated and inserted Latin vowel letters in the Tetragrammaton, is "Not quite dear one"? Please, do a little research and learn the truth before speaking from a preverted teaching.
Galatians 1:6-10
dear one...
Revelation 1:8
Tell me who is speaking? Is it God or Jesus?
Revelation 1:8
Tell me who is speaking? Is it God or Jesus?
God here at Rev 1:8, Jesus elsewhere. More info here:
http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#23
The heavenly resurrected Jesus is identified as Almighty God and the “First and the Last” because there can be only one “First and Last” and one “Alpha and Omega” and Jesus assumed both titles.
In the Book of Revelation Jesus can be identified as the Almighty and the “Alpha and the Omega,” titles used to identify God. Even if the Jehovah's Witnesses were correct in stating that Jesus is never specifically called the Almighty, which they claim is a title reserved for God (Reasoning, 414), that title can readily be ascribed to Jesus by logically piecing together selected verses.
For instance, both Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18 and God as the Alpha and Omega at Revelation 22:13 are referred to as “the First and the Last.” Therefore, because Jesus and the Almighty are both “the First and the Last,“ Jesus must be the Almighty who is the Alpha and Omega.
Also, the Alpha and the Omega (God) of Revelation 1:8 is identified as the Almighty, and because Jesus is also the Alpha and the Omega, Jesus is the Almighty, a title identifying Jehovah (Yahweh) at Genesis 17:1. Jesus was, and is, God. The logical train of thought is illustrated by quoting the actual verses.
a) Jesus is the First and the Last: “Fear not, I am the First and the Last, and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.” (Revelation 1:17, 18)
b) The Alpha and the Omega (God) is also the First and the last: “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end.” (Revelation 22:12, 13)
c) Therefore, Jesus must also be the Alpha and Omega, God.
d) The Alpha and the Omega is the Almighty: “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Revelation 1:8)
e) Therefore, not only is Jesus the Alpha and Omega but also the Almighty, all powerful, omnipotent.
This makes perfect sense in light of John 17:10 where Jesus in praying to His Father said, “everything of mine is yours, and everything of yours is mine.” “Everything” is very broad. It includes His disciples, words (truth), the Holy Spirit, and all power and authority as indicated by Christ’s statement at Matthew 28:18, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” Christ claimed universal power (NAB notes 28, 19); He is omnipotent, all powerful, and accordingly Almighty and sovereign of which there can only be one in the Universe.
The Jehovah's Witnesses attempt to circumvent this logic by arguing that the mere fact that one title (First and Last) is applied to two separate individuals, Jesus and the Almighty, does not mean those individuals are the same person. By analogy they contend that the expression “apostle” is applied to Jesus and to certain ones of his followers, but that doesn’t prove that they are the same person or of equal rank (Reasoning, 413).
Their analogy, however, is not applicable to this situation. The Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jesus is always secondary and inferior to God in everything at all times, in heaven and on earth, never first (Should You Believe, Chapter 6). Thus, even by their own admission, there is only one who can be “the First and the Last.”
On the other hand, there have been many apostles, and if there are many such “First and Lasts” they might have a point, but there aren’t, there’s just one. The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ analogy just isn’t valid. As there can only be one First and Last, and both Jesus and God are “the First and the Last,” Jesus must be God and Christ rightfully refers to Himself indirectly as the Almighty in the Book of Revelation. You could say it was the culmination of His gradual disclosure.
To put it another way, if there is only one person on planet earth and his title is King and name is Sherman, and if there is a person on earth whose name is Fred who also is called King, then Fred must be Sherman the King in the same sense that Christ must be God because there is only one “First and Last“ of the universe, one King.
Furthermore, both God and Jesus are said to be “coming,” an obvious reference to the much anticipated Second Coming of Christ’s return (Rev 1:7, 8; 22:12, 13).
It is simply not logical that in the Book of Revelation the “First and Last” is a title reserved for the Almighty, the Alpha and Omega, but is also applied to a created angel who became man and reverted back to being an angel, who is always regarded by the Jehovah’s Witnesses as secondary to God in everything, a created being, always inferior. Their theory just doesn’t make sense.
Learn something before quickly responding...
"I Am"
Exodus 3:14
Hebrew word:
Pronounced: aeie (first 4 letters only, the whole thing says "I am who I am")
Means: I-shall-become (Mondern English its "I Am")
dear one...
Genesis 2:4
Tetragrammaton first appears in scripture:
Pronounced: Adonai (Adon is singular form for Lord)
Means: Lord, lord, lord
Not necessarily. According to Strong and Vines, Adonai is used exclusively of God, but it is also used of Christ the Lord.At Psalm 110 David referred to Christ the Lord as Adonai. More detail here with jpg images of Strong and Vines re adonai.
