its hypothetical remember :-) but no I don;t imagine you could know these people, even if they did exist :-)
ethical question - maybe you can help
My comments based on my similar experience:
I didn't cause the breakup of the marriage. I hated that my former friend did what he did and did not agree with it at the time, but I was not involved nor my input sought at the time. I couldn't undo what had been done. I had to accept it the same as he and his family had to.
Over time I learned that the break-up wasn't toally his fault, though he was the one who closed the deal with the DFing offense. It was a marriage on the rocks and under WT rules, they were stuck until one of em made a move. They were miserable, so he made the move. He took the fall, both at the hall and with the lawyers (alimony).
After his DFing, he reached out to a couple of other DFd people and to a couple who were faded (me one of em). He then got an education about the truth of the Society.
I say, welcome him as a friend and judge him from this new re-connection on. If, in the future, he does things that jeopardize the friendship, respong accoordingly, but until then, accept what has happened and show him support and sympathy as can be done without being dishonest. Basically leave the WT part of it out. How would you respond if a non-JW friend came to you for support after a failed marriage?
Just my .02 from my experience...
I'd certainly offer support to the person for having lost their marriage and their religion. But I'd damn sure make it clear that I viewed their marital problems as a cause for mourning and their religious loss as a cause for celebration.
I think I have to give my answer with a scotch and cigar.
I agree with what OTWO said. Would also like to add that you were all close at one point, and if you had you had the friendship of both of them over the past two years, the situation would be far more awkward for everyone involved. You haven't seen or heard from them in two years, and you've probably mourned the loss of your 'couple friendship'during that time, but now at least this way, you are not too close to the situation....and you dont have to be caught in the middle of the two of them......wondering if you are upsetting one by appearing to be loyal to the other.
I would say....just be there for them. You can support someone without condoning what they have done. The reason they have contacted you, may have thrown you a bit, and shocked you, but just be glad they did. They have probably missed your friendship as much as you have missed theirs. Their normal support system is unavailable to them now. Even if they were not DF ....friends and family, (as they often do), take sides.
This is a crucial time for them in their lives. I'm speaking from personal experience as you know, and I've had some of the best support, and heard the nicest things that I've had said to me over the past weeks. You know who the real people are in situations like this. They are being shunned through being DF when they probably need support the most. Sometimes you dont want answers or solutions. Answers arent necessary and solutions dont always exist. People in this situation need all the support they can get....if you and Sam can provide it, then go for it. You have a history to work with. Now that you have contact you may be able to use it to your advantage and enlighten them about the org...... when the time is right of course.
There is nothing stopping you from sending a card or e-mailing the partner, offering your sympathies and support. I think its important for all us apostates to be the bigger person and show them that we are still normal human beings who care. You may just prove the same point to both of them in this situation...
"There is nothing stopping you from sending a card or e-mailing the partner, offering your sympathies and support. I think its important for all us apostates to be the bigger person and show them that we are still normal human beings who care...."
It's been 20 years and the trauma and pain of my failed marriage still haunts me. Though remarried the biggest trauma for me was not my mentally unstable wife but the uncarring unloving reaction to the failure by all JW on-lookers, including my JW family. If only someone had reached out to me or her! Yes, my family did support me, but all they wanted to do was attack her like her family wanted to attack me. What I wanted was not the taking of sides against her but the loving reaching out to her by JWs to help her address her issues, as I could do nothing.
For me, it was like being on a pier and watching your loved one fall off and you can't swim! So all you can do is watch as you and the crowd of swimming-capable people on the pier watch (with little concern or empathy) your loved one drift out to sea! (yes, later I found out that I was wronged, but at the time that was unknown and not the point)
It was then that I had to learn to stand on my own two feet and recover myself. I moved, got new friends and had to seek divorce-recovery therapy from another church, as I could never find a JW-path to such recovery, only condemnation and judgement. Today, I thank all of you for continuing to provide me and others support for the painful experiences we have suffered under the WT dogma.
Are we glad they are out the cult, accept that marital breakdown is complex with many causes and offer them support, sympathy and we are selfishly vindicated to have one less person in the cult?
Or are we upset that they have caused a marriage to break down and leave our sympathies with the wronged partner, although they are JW and still shunning us?
Your input is welcomed.
False dilemma. Why can you not be both?
I've always looked at Dubs as the victims. If they make contact for any reason other than preaching, I would welcome them. If they have been jerks in thier marriage, then they have been jerks, talk to them accordingly. If thier marriage broke up because of the religion, that's not thier fault.
This is what I think.
First of all is he my friend or just a past acquientance? Even if he didnt speak to me before but I considered him my friend I know that the reason he couldnt talk to me is because he was not allowed to talk to me and not because I didnt wanted to. So If he is my friend I will be very happy he is trying to talk to me again because now due to what happened he is out so he can no longer feel restricted to talk to me.
Second why is he reaching to me? does he need help? is he lonely? is he suffering because noone talks to him? is he guilty? I dont know and it doesnt matter because he is reaching to me so I would listen. or am i going to shun him just because the WT said so? at this point I am free of their control so they are not gonna dictate me who to talk to. I dont wanna be guilty of doing to him what the WT did to me.
Now, what did he do? did he broke up his marriage? how do I know? who am I to make a judgment if I dont even know all the factors involved? I would leave that for the elders :-) And once again I will be happy that he is out. Even if he had bad intentions and purposly committed the SIn of adultery he is in a very good position because he is now out of reach from the WT. I am condoning what he did. I had nothing to do with it. I might be sorry for what he did. But I am happy he is out. I rather have him out and divorced than in and married. A lot of those marriages are not even good anyway.
Now just because he is out, it doesnt mean that his eyes are open. he is still programmed by the WT. ABSOLUTELY, he is not out because he doubted but because he was kicked out. So i have to treat him as I would treat any other JW except that he is able to talk to me now. What a great place to be. I would see where he is in his beliefs and I would try to help him think by himself again. What if he repents not from the SIN of adultery as the WT paints it but for hurting his wife? What if he really loves her and wants to fix it? well now he as a better tool. What is she love him? in a way cheatting was a blessing because it allowed him the opportunity to learn things he wouldnt have. Can you imagine he deprograms himself, he fixes his marriage and then helps his wife? If that happend to me I would be happy she did it even if our marriage is not solved. I lost my wife I gain my life.
We are so judgemental and the WT makes the things worst.
FYI I was DFd for 14 years... but never deprogrammed until last month. Before I was mad I was treated bad in my comitte and they kicked me out. Now I m happy otherwise i would still be there.
Now am in not even getting in the issue of morality because morality is defined by the religious views of the community.Cheattin is bad because of this countrys religious beliefs but there are other cultures and countries where it isnt. So even adultery is a Moral-religious issue that I we are indoctrinated.
anyway sorry if my english is not that good. I still need to perfect it :-)
welcome to the board cyberjesus - don't worry about your english - its fine
thanks to all who replied