butterfly im holding onto you..... whatever you choose it will be whats in your heart deep deep within :))
Jehovah Witnesses are NOT a bad Cult but man made type spiritual guide
I cant really think straight at the moment, our friend (one of the annointed) has died....so thats another one gone, how many are left i dont know....
There are probably about 2 or 3 million..
The JW 144,000..
The number keeps going up..
Butterfly, I understand you are saying they seem to have the answers to issues...are you aware that there are other groups out there that beleive similarly? Exactly why do you beleive the WT is God's org? Exactly why do you beleive that they are right about blood or 1914?
Where does the Bible tell us clearly that we are to seek out one true organization? Matt 24:45-47 requires a unque WT interpretation to conclude what htey claim it means. Yet there are other viable conclusions that a straight reading tells you.
Refresh my memory- were you born in? Converted?
TD I feel like your on to something but are you saying JW can't compare the past with today? I'm sorta confused... (JW believe in applying all the scriptures in todays problems)...
No comparison will work if there is something fundamentally different between the two situations being compared.
The nation of Israel were "God's people," "God's organization" etc. because of promises made to Abraham.
JW's claim to be "God's people," "God's organization," etc. because of their conduct.
Those are two entirely different reasons for being "God's people" and those reasons have the following consequences:
Regardless of how badly the Israelite kings behaved; God's promises to Abraham had to be kept. Israel continued to be "God's organization" until those promises were fulfilled
Bad conduct makes the JW claim to being God's chosen people dissolve into thin air because conduct itself is the basis of the claim.
Therefore bad conduct today cannot be excused using the nation of Israel as a model
I was born in the Religion. My grandpa was an elder and kinda took over being a father figure. my mom has battles so that kinda I think influenced my laid back view. but now I may have a family soon and i think about the struggles on how to raise a kid... what will I raise them as a Jehovah's Witness, a Christian from Church of God, nuetrual, or what? So to clear my thinking and go in a straight path i kinda need to know it's safe before exposing it to someone else... even maybe to my fiance. He looks over my shoulder from time to time and sees more the negitive now then the good by JW. It's kinda making me want to go back to the Kingdom Hall so I recall points and scriptures. Yeah I admit I'm kinda lazy when it comes to reading the Bible fully and really i just want what's best.
Outlaw you crack me up I seriously always joked about that too. Actually alot of stuff I recall thinking bout but didn't give much thought to in a sense have been showing up on this board alot. Where I'm like yeah I remember asking that... then when I asked it a JW friend or elder would make a short sweet answer back and then I went on with my daily thing. It's weird how important it really maybe...
As yourself is wts was backed by holy spirit from the start, how and if not from the start when did it recieve that backing? That was my question when I started to research the organization. From the research you'll get your own answers whether you come to conclusion that wts is God's chosen or to a conclusion that I came to that wts is nothing more than man made org that appears to by holier than thou but has many skeletons in the closet and the closet is packed full that they can't keep the door closed from the truth being seen by all. Read Thy Kingdom Come book and you will see what Charles Russell taught. With that understanding my conclusion was that Russell when died believed that Christ returned in 1874 and began to reign in 1878 and that the last days started in 1799 while 1914 was to be the start of great tribulation. When Russell died in 1916 he may have actually believed that the great tribulation started as ww1 was raging. If you read some of Russell's scandels and legal battles you'll find that Russell wasn't as honest as wts claims. His divorce was ugly, his court with The Brooklyn Eagle revealed that he donation of his wealth to wts was really a transfer of assets to an org that was 95% or around there fully controlled by Russell which really meant that WTS was Russell and Russell was WTS. He used society's assets to travel the world and enjoy his life. By doing so, his wife got practically nothing from the divorce which he even schemed not to pay alimony or similar bills to his wife which at present I don't remember the details without going back and re-reading. Russell lied in court about business connections, had his secretery or treasurer revealed that Russell had shares/ownership in other businesses while being a president of wts including a holding company where people's donations would go to. From Russell's history alone I concluded that wts didn't have God's backing from the start but was lead by a man who may have honestly believed his nonsense but didn't mind benefitting from people's donations as his lifestyle didn't seem to lack much.
Moving onto Rutherford, you; ll learn more dates and more wacky ideas and dictatorial attitude established. Until 1930 Rutherford taught 1874 was Christ's return, changed 1878 to 1914 in early 1920s and pointed to 1925 as more biblical date than 1914. Encouraged reading Angels and Women which was supposedly inspired by a fallen angel and Rutherford argued that reading that book was beneficial rebuking those who pointed out the spiritistic influence. Rutherford build a masnion for himself and made it appear as if it was for the ancient worthies of Hebrews 11 which were taught to be resurrected. Hs no problem driving around in a Caddy showing off while abusing his power and treating his so called brothers like dirt. Olin Moyle court documents are quite interesting to read. Moyle was wts lawyer which didn't like Rutherford's behaviour and thus wrote Rutherford a letter stating so and due to Rutherford's behaviour he was to leave Bethal but was willing to continue serving as societies lawyer and work on the cases he was already involved in. Rutherford basically called him an apostate and evil slave and was able to turn his son against the father. Moyle sued and won! Rutherford died with only couple people attending his funeral, even his wife and son didn't appear. Another scandel arrived where old Rutherford's body to be layed as he wasnted to be buried in Beth Sarim or Beth Shan while authorities denied the request for either. From examination of Rutherford I also don't feel that God's spirit was anywhere near.
As you study Knorr and the gang you'll see that the new light and new ideas are sometimes harmful to members, sometimes so called old light is brought back. You'll find they ignore reason and will twist truth or publish half truths, or quotes taken out of context BUT always making themselves appear holy and above reproof. You'll learn about abuse problems, child and wife abuse, you'll learn about twisted UN explanaitions and that foreign branches are still NGO members even though the NY branch resigned. You'll see how they changed their policies on organ transplants without apolagies but instead made it a conscience decision a deceptive way of making it appear as if it's your decision but that they haven't really changes their mind completely. 1975 scandel. Ray Franz scandel.
Ask yourself how many other religions do you know that had this many scandels, false hopes, false dates and so many changes to the teachings within 130 years of their existance? Could this organization be backed by the same Spirit that the bible claims to in infalible? Examine the facts with an open mind and you will see that the wts is nothing more than man made, run by man with a pride problem who present themselves as gods. They can change their teachings, they can question their past their teachings or others but you as their follower can't do neither without being labeled a renegade, and apostate. For discovering the truth about these men you may loose your so called friends, possibly your family even mother, father or your own kids!!!!
There is sooooo much to learn for someone that is just starting to see what this organization is all about and if one is young enough the better chance of being less hurt. There are men who lost everything in their late years with nothing to show for as they've sacrificed their lives for this religion - Ray Franz, Ed Dunlap. With your research you'll see that Christ didn't return in 1874 nor in 1914 nor yesterday :) We're not in last days and the end as taught by wts is not imminent.
I finally got to tell my mom about my feeling of the Organization.
She agrees... and is starting to use her brain. Her relization of the abuse caused by the organization rules finally is catching up to her and I think she isn't making as many excuses for the organization... but yet she oddly said she felt the organization had the truth... I had to explain again how could they claim to have the truth with all this flaws... I told her I felt their is alot more christians then we realize.
There are a few individual Witnesses I do like and even admire, but it seems to be it's in spite of them being Witnesses, not because of it.
One is a brother who professes to be of the annointed who always addresses his prayers to "my lord Jesus", believes fervently in his heavenly destiny and has been repeatedly counseled and frowned upon for being too "Jesus-y" in a religion where Jesus is relegated to somewhere below dog catcher, or so it seems.
I admire his tenacity in keeping true to his belief that Christ is his spiritual leader and no one else, but boy, does he get a lot of flack from it from some of the elders! They are enough in awe of his being "annointed" that they don't DF, but I know a few who'd like to! The stress of all this has taken it's toll on his health...he's had to have 3 heart surgeries, including a triple bypass.
But, this guy is absolutely the most Christ like Witness I've personally known. He's also not overly pious either, just a genuinely good, down to earth guy who does all he can to help anyone, regardless, and doesn't make distinctions between Witnesses and others that way.
He's probably one of the few Witnesses I can think of that make me think, "I think Christ would like this guy."
Wow!! People!! Hello! Is anybody home!!! Am I alone or does it not feel like we swallowed the proverbial blue pill (love the matrix) or was it the red one...? Anywho so you basically tried unsuccessfully to dance ur way around a whole lotta touchy subjects sucessfully. I think jw's would make excellent politicians! Buncha yuppies in pinstripe suits or a 2 piece if ur a mrs ;) tryin to sell smart people a load of sh!t ! I just got off the phone with my father who is an active jw and knows his watchtower protocol. and will post a little how it went later! Let's just say I would have liked to have record it! Let's just say that if a pedophile is repentant he will be given a judicial committee ( internal only) dffed if he's not repentant (but they always are because they can get off on our innocent young children once again) and/or marked but won't allowed to be around children unsupervised. And let's not forget to keep it hush hush! Don't want the good folk to get alarmed now do we!! The halls are breeding grounds for pedophiles! It was like talking to a madman I kid you not!