So confused

by greenie 41 Replies latest jw friends

  • vilot

    That's not good you've already had a little taste of JWdom imagine trying to live that life even if you don't become a JW no holidays, birthdays little league games soccer games and an endless dribble "THE TIME OF THE END IS NEAR" for the rest of your life...not to mention the fact he will try his darness to bring your child into JW land...

  • yknot

    I am in a 'house divided' marriage.

    My children are religiously-blended in their personal interpretations. (Read- disavow trinity, immortality of soul, hellfire, believe in a literal 144,000, would accept blood as adults without any conscience issues, Christ is their mediator but only partake on Nisan 14, are allowed to choose whether they attend worldly events like holiday or b-day parties but appreciate the concept of voluntary Field Service and SB visitations.

    Can it work...... yes

    Does it take work......yes.

    You might wanna employ a counselor that can moderate the intensity that often comes with religious discussions of raising offspring.

    Have this stuff all threshed out before saying 'I do' as you have more legal clout over the baby then him while a single mom.

  • diamondiiz

    He's obviously doing his own thing and it's hard to say how he views WTS. If he believes all or parts of their teachings. If he believes all doctrine he must feel that he will die at armareddon thus would make sense why he would want to go back now that he has a child and you. But that doesn't sound right. People can have many motives and many reasons why they do the things they do so really the only way for you to know what he thinks is to ask him and talk with him and if he's truely honest he'll tell you what's on his mind. Is this he's "wild" part of life where he can do whatever he wants to without getting DF and the plan is to get baptized down the road and follow the WT line? If so, what kind of husband will he be? Mixed marriages work just as much as anything else but they also end up in divorce just like other marriages. You won't find true advise from anyone because you're the only one that knows the guy and you are the only one that can decide if he's honest with you or not and what are his intentions as to religion. If he goes back he definetely will have to change! Either he will be two faced or you will see a major change in your relationship as he will start putting WT interests first in which case he would put pressure on having the child go to the meetings. Wish I could give you better advise but honest talk is the only key to your decision on your future with him.

  • GoddessRachel

    Welcome, greenie, I am happy for you and your baby. I am in agreement with the others that if your man decides to be a JW it will be very difficult for you in ways you can't fully appreciate now. I really hope he decides to just move on with his life. There is little room for the outside world when you are a full-time Jehovah's Witness; the organization has purposely designed it that way.

    Good luck,


  • greenie

    Thanks everyone for the information. The one part I'm really confused about in many of your responses is why you think I would have a life with no holidays, no bdays, etc. I understand that's a JW lifestyle, but I have NO plans to become one and he knows that (he's said he would never pressure me to convert). Those are HIS choices, not mine, and he knows that. I think he's coming to grips with if he wants me, that's what he has to expect. I don't plan to be obnoxious about it and throw a Christmas party while he sits in our room, but he knows fully that I WILL NOT stop celebrating holidays and bdays, especially with my child. I think when he's witnessed those celebrations with my family he's seen that they're not all the debaucherous, pagan affairs some make them out to be. Besides, when he came into my life, he was happy to do all those things (he might not have wished anyone a happy bday or gone to Midnight Mass with me, but he came to the parties and to the present openings on Christmas day), and I've told him that he can't just switch things one day. He fell in love with me for a reason, and it wasn't because I was the picture of a perfect JW woman. When we've had big religious talks he's also said that he doesn't care how we're together (married or not), but at the end of the day he wants to be with me. I think he's willing to work with me on compromises; he is a really good guy. Oh, and he said he would go to a counselor. I'm nervous and excited about that.

    I think his family might not be as strict as others. He has a sibling I said doesn't practice at all anymore who isn't DF'd; they were allowed to have worldly friends growing up; his parents know I'm not a JW and they seem to really like me; there's another nonJW spouse in the family that is very loved.

    Yknot: thanks for the personal information. Can you share anymore? How is your marriage mixed? Who's what? Any other tips? Oh, and what's an SB?

    Also, does anyone that was raised a JW or in a mixed marriage, or IS raising kids in a mixed marriage have any advice for how I can talk to our child about both our beliefs and shield the baby a bit from some of the scarier JW teachings? I remember almost peeing my pants at an evangelical service when I was little when they said I was going to be swallowed up by the pits of hell when the trumpets blew. YIKES!

  • WingCommander


    Wow.....this is an interesting spot you are in. Your man is what we refer to as a "fringe JW", but people in the congregation would call him "Spiritually Weak, or Bad Association" for 1.) not being baptized 2.) dating a worldy girl. 3.) getting said worldy girl pregnant 4.) marrying worldly girl. 5.) Celebrating worldly pagan holidays 6.) associating with worldly people (non-JW's)

    This guy sounds alot like me 10 years ago. I was 19, and dating a 20 year old Catholic girl. I didn't live the JW life anymore, and my parents barely did either. BUT, all of those years of brainwashing that I had growing up made for some hellish religious discussions, as still believed everything I was taught, hook, line, and sinker. Unfortunately, neither of us were smart enough to go to counseling or try to compromise, so after 9 months we broke up because of the stress of thinking about marriage, children, etc. Both of you seem much more open and accepting, and as far as I can tell if you keep him busy with YOUR life, your family, your holidays and celebrations, he will keep coming around and get sick of the JW Stepford life and just give up on it. Why? Because that way of living doesn't give you anything back, it takes everything away. You give him so much and he knows it, hence he's willing to be with you know matter what.

    You definitely sound like you can handle him and with some time I think he'll end up leaving for good and you and your family can put all of this behind you. You sound like a smart woman, and I really think he'll keep coming around.

    - Wing Commander

  • undercover

    Lucky for you his family aren't uber-dubs. If they were, he would be under more pressure to go back.

    I'm guessing he's thinking of his future since a child is involved now. The only religious experience he's had is the JWs so naturally he leans toward that when thinking of how to raise a child.

    You have different traditions so you should have some say in how the child is raised as well. If he insists on going to the Hall, then convince him that he'll have to compromise and attend some of your preferred religious meetings. It's only fair.

    Since his family isn't all that zealous one of the best things you can really do is to keep him distracted with life in the real world. Maybe distraction isn't the right word. Keep him busy with real life. He has you, he has a child. Make sure he puts that first.

    Also, you might want to educate yourself about the JW faith so that you can discuss it with him. A word of caution...go very easy on how you criticize the organization. But if you can cause him to question or doubt on his own, your battle is half won.

    There are no easy answers. It's all trial and error. But you'll find support and help from others who have gone before you here on the board.

    Welcome, BTW

  • greenie

    Thanks WC and UC! When we talk about religious points, I first try to do it lovingly and also temper his guilty feelings. He definitely has a hiiiiiiiiiiiigh degree of guilt. I can't believe a religion that motivates through guilt and such negative emotions. I just let him know that I love him unconditionally, and that I learn that love from my religion and my family. If I don't start that way then we're sure to end up in an argument about whatever we're discussing. I almost think it confuses him a little. But it also makes me really angry that anyone or group would try to make someone I love feel so bad about himself. I never liked a bully and always rooted for the underdog.

    We have had discussions about many things, but especially blood, and birthdays and holidays. I think that's it's REALLY interesting, especially now as a mom, that white blood cells, which are forbidden even in the new partial-blood rules as I understand it, are passed to the baby in breast milk, so that the baby is LITERALLY consuming blood. I mean, literally eating it. How would God make a mistake that big in how his creation survives and thrives if he also meant to expressedly forbid "consuming" blood. It simply doesn't make sense. Also, why don't intentions matter to JWs? I don't participate in Easter egg hunts because I hope to become more fertile or worship some Goddess that I've honestly NEVER heard of and so of course DO NOT believe in. It's just ridiculous. And also that when Jesus "chose" this group, they were celebrating birthdays and Christmas. That was the group he chose. So this group now, would the Jesus that chose them (I guess I say it that way because I don't think they were the chosen ones) even recognize them now?

    The more weedy issues (was Jesus really Michael the archangel, all this business about 1914 and the 144,000) really confuse me and I don't get why they are important. I don't even really like thinking about them because they aren't important to me and make my brain hurt, but I guess since they are a reason he hangs onto his religion, I might do well to get a primer on them. Any suggestions for where to do that? I'd also be interested to find why or why not a woman can be a minister. In my religion, women can, I've just never asked why that was or wasn't ok. I also think the "light getting brighter near the end" is an ingenious tool, I'll give them that, but I'd love to know how to address that one. I also know I won't get anywhere in a discussion if I can't show logic from the Bible. That's my biggest downfall.

    My overall impression of the religion's appeal (unless you were raised in it) is that people like a formula - a very specific set of instructions that say "if you do all this, and don't do any of this you WILL go to Heaven (or Paradise Earth)." I believe that most things aren't just that black and white, and that's ok with me.

    Undercover, I am really looking forward to thoughtfully learning more from the experiences of folks on this site.

  • Chalam

    Hi greenie and welcome aboard!

    First of all, just in case you haven't seen my posts I am a born again Christian. Also, I have a big heart for JWs as I have a good friend who is one and know several others.

    What you have clearly discerned is that JW beliefs are totally way off base, in fact they aren't biblical at all. Everything is skewed and distorted until day becomes night and night is day.

    Now you have some difficult decisions to make.

    In regards to getting married, forgive me in advance for being blunt but this is clear

    2 Corinthians 6:14 (New International Version)

    Do Not Be Yoked With Unbelievers
    14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

    Once you are married you will be yoked to your husband who is not a believer. God is less than a fan of divorce so changing your mind is not a good idea Malachi 2:16 Plus, 2 Cor 6 is for prohibition but for your protection. If you get married you will be a constant battle over your opposing faiths. You clearly know "which way is up" right now but will you after 5 or 10 years of hearing the WT doctrine? I have talked to enough JWs who were former Catholics or Baptists and had numerous questions to begin with which melted away after the years. For your child there are real dangers. If you are married they could quite likely get sucked in to the clutches of the WT. As much as you love this man, are you willing to lose your mind to the WT? Or your soul? All the best, Stephen
  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Hi greenie, welcome to our nightmare.

    Your story, so far, is a good match with mine. I was an unbaptised born-in and got my Anglican girlfriend pregnant.

    Long story, short:

    I am still an unbaptised born-in.

    My wife is a baptised, true believing, door knocking, demon fearing, guilt ridden, confused, lover of Jehovah and hater of Apostates.

    Our kids are both baptised JWs. One is drifted and married to a Christian, but is still a guilt ridden believer, waiting for Jehovah to murder him and his family at Armageddon. The other is married to a slave of the bOrg, and is afraid to have children before Armageddon and will soon be at an age when childbearing would be unwise.

    I only discovered the truth about The Truth 6 years ago. Until then I was a guilt ridden believer, waiting for Jehovah to murder him and his family at Armageddon.

    With that in mind, here is my take on your situation:

    Until your BF fully understands that he has been a victim of a high control cult, he is damaged goods and is not marriageable material.

    What I am saying is, do not commit yourself to marriage unless you are sure that he is mentally out.

    Not agreeing to marry is a safeguard for you and your child, not a tool to aid you to lever him out against his judgement. You must not use psychlogical warfare to manipulate him out of the cult. It may work short term, but it will come back and bite you later.

    Stick around and learn.



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