by AllTimeJeff 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Jeff,
Fear and God should never be in the same "room", it doesn't make sense to fear a supreme and all knowing Being, does it?
Have no worries Bro, if there is a God, he knows, and he knows us so well and if anyone knows the why's of our doubts, God does.
"We All Lose Faith Sometimes...."
"We all Lose Fear Sometimes.... "
I can so relate to what you're talking about Jeff. I wanted to cling to a faith almost to prove the JW's in my area wrong, that I haven't "left Jehovah" as they claimed and joined the world in its seedy debauchery as they hoped. But my motive for seeking a faith beyond JW's wasn't pure and I find myself questioning more and more, wanting clearer evidence, tired of chasing shadows and guessing at meanings.
Where is God in all this? I don't know, I've lost him again. I'm scared to pick up the bible and just read. I'm scared incase the words condemn me yet again, and scripture has been used to condemn me so often, to tell me I'm just not good enough....I don't think I can take hearing that again.
At a certain point, it all comes down to faith, which admittedly, is usually wrecked upon a JW exit. What is often misunderstood though is, like the Kingdom Hall, agnosticism and atheism are often stops on a spiritual journey, one that continues to forge ahead. It often isn't a final destination, although for some, it is.
Your word here give me hope. Perhaps this turning toward agnosticism is a phase, a spiritual bus stop. and to be honest, I think we all need to take stops. Many of us take years to heal from the spiritual abuse we've suffered, the damage done to our spiritual side is considerable and no amount of rushing will speed the healing up. For this isn't about our heads, we can all quote why various WT doctrines are false, this is about our hearts, the absolute betrayal of trust - some feel by God himself. Where was God the day I thought he'd sent the Witnesses? How come I was praying for help and 10 minutes later 2 witnesses were at my door seemingly in answer to that prayer? Coincidence? Maybe, I just don't know. All I know is that for the next 21 years, I was spiritually abused (as we all were) by an organization that I thought was an answer to my prayer.
Somehow for faith to be restored, that trust has to be restored too. Anyone knows that isn't something that happens overnight, its a sloooow process. Like a wife thats been cheated on, the husband is gonna have to prove himself trustworthy for many years and in many situations before full trust can be restored completely, if ever. If God wants us back, then he's gonna have to prove himself trustworthy, and that takes both parties to step up to the plate. We have to make ourselves vulnerable and put our trust out there, and God has to step up to the mark and not let us down again.
Are we willing to make ourselves vulnerable to being let down again? I'm not sure if I can do that yet. I'm too scared. i just don't trust Him.
ATJ,
Great post.
The last sentence of your op particularly resonates with me:
After all, it takes a while to get your faith back, no matter what you decide to ultimately put your faith in.
"Faith" as the very act of believing (and by extension its possibility, being able to believe) is quite different in principle from "faith" as the object of belief (what or even who you believe) -- fides qua creditur vs. fides quae creditur, "faith" as quasi-synonym for "trust" vs. "faith" as a quasi-synonym for "doctrine". Although they are not completely separable: "faith without beliefs" (the title of one of my first threads here) is probably an illusion, but one we can still relate to asymptotically as it were.
Another thing you suggested later is also very close to my heart: that what we may perceive as a "loss of faith" (even in the first sense of "faith") is a 'spiritual' experience of its own, and a very valuable one no matter how disturbing it can be. La noche oscura (the dark night) of St. John of the Cross comes to mind. Nobody is 100 % believer or unbeliever I feel, except pretenders. We all have to cross to the other side a number of times, and then we need people like Siddhartha's boatman, who have understood that one bank is no better than the other but we have to cross over nonetheless.
Men tend to like facts. Women tend to like beliefs. Ergo religion is a woman's thing.
<Runs for cover whilst suggesting you examine the facts about who attends church - 60/40 split in the JW faith. Fact.>
Besty,
Your comment reminded me of Twain's quote.
"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows." -- Mark Twain
- LWT
yep - that's basically it - which is why more 'divided households' have the woman sitting in the KH and the man sitting at home watching the game - women are more drawn to 'beliefs' and the need for community. Your mileage may vary.
Great post Jeff - I like the way you think.
When I left the JWs I was terrified of losing my faith and determined to prove to all the naysayers that I hadn't left Jehovah.
I went to a church and liked what I found there. I became a born again Christian.
After a while though, encouraged in part by good ol' Atheist hubby, Besty, I decided to put my faith to the test like I'd done with the JWs. Christianity, the Bible and God FAILED.
Now I am very happy and content. I strive to the most upright citizen and the best mother, wife, sister and daughter that is humanly possible.
All possible without religion.
I would love to be proved wrong and who knows, one day, maybe I will (but I somehow doubt it)
PSacramento, I've seen Jeff have this kind of conversation with Stephen before, but I want to point it out to you now: Thank you for being able to have a conversation about faith and God with someone who believes very differently than you, in such a polite and respectful manner. You give believers a good name.
Jeff, I think I love you! Seriously, I haven't read the responses, but you just summed up my entire life since reading the bible.
I was born-in, heard the whole "we've got the truth and nothing but the truth and everyone is gonna die!" My WHOLE LIFE. THEN, I read the bible as part of my searching process. I came away thinking it was the biggest load of BS I've ever seen.
Jesus was a cool dude. I could follow him, but as soon as he died------here comes Paul with his woman-hating, smack-down you aren't worth living shit. It's like everyone was jockeying for position. They totally LOST his message. His message was VERY simple-----"Do unto others"......His ONE commandment was that we love people. Sounds alot like Buddha and the Dahli Lama.
Religion is not for me at all. I guess I'm Agnostic. There is prolly something out there, but until He acts right I want no part of it.
