Penetrating the Deepest Level- "Jehovah" is God

by OnTheWayOut 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  OnTheWayOut

  Having been there, most of us can see that the idea that "Jehovah" is God, and a group that uses the name and even carries the name as a badge of honor (Jehovah's Witnesses) have a very deep level of belief in the religion and that virtually anything that tries to upset the belief causes great cognitive dissonance.

  To even suggest that Witnesses of [the named God] are wrong is just so heavy on their dissonance. To suggest that a group of people that carries the name of their God are misleading is like suggesting that everything they know is wrong, gravity doesn't exist, up is down, the sun exploded.

  I am not asking for debate on whether God is "Jehovah" or "YHWH" or "Yaweh" or whether the Bible is the Word of God. I am just rambling a bit because in many cases, such as mine, some cannot even get past this deepest level in ANY discussion with our JW loved ones. To argue against the Bible is to argue against "Jehovah" and to argue against the WT's take on the Bible is to argue against a people that carry the name of God with honor.

  In some cases, such as mine, we are in for the long haul to help our loved one to realize they are in a dangerous mind control cult. We have to find non-threatening ways to penetrate the deep level of belief in anything WTS says. I use everyday conversations to make my wife think. She knows that college/education is extremely valuable to get by in today's world, she is upset at newstories of robbing people of their rights or making women secondary citizens to men. I encourage her independent thinking. I strike nerves on her dissonance but try to keep her religion out of it.

  I will be rereading RELEASING THE BONDS again this fall. It has been the best book I have found to help in the "long haul" case I have. To help a person who won't let anything upset their deepest level of belief ("Jehovah" is God, WTS owns the patent on "Jehovah") it is necessary to reach the true personality beyond the cult personality. It is necessary to work on their positive thoughts of who they would be without the group or what they would "correct" about the group (implying cautiously that WTS is "wrong").

  What this thread is about: What thoughts do you have on penetrating a JW's deepest level of belief that "Jehovah" as defined by WTS is God and WTS must be "right" because they carry HIS name?
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  OnTheWayOut

  I posted this on a current thread by "Confession." It demonstrates the typical deep-seated level of belief of a JW:

  A. The Bible is "right."
  B. There is a "right" way to serve the God of the Bible.
  C. The God of the Bible is "Jehovah."
  D. To be serving God "right," you must recognize Jehovah.
  E. WTS recognizes Jehovah and uses the Bible, therefore they are the "right" way to serve the God of the Bible.
  F. If WTS is "right" then all others are "wrong."
  G. Any deviation from this simple "logic" that causes dissonance should just fall back on repeating the steps above.
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  Heaven

  I've actually gone back a step from this (not to get off topic). The Bible says to prove all things. Cool. Let's start at the very foundation then. Prove that God exists. Because, if you can't do this, what difference does it make what 'name' he has?

  WTS owns the patent on "Jehovah"

  This has always disturbed me about them. Their "we're right and you're wrong", "it's us against them" mentality is quite stunting. It hurts my heart to see so many people so limited. I don't find much joy in the JWs I know. Their 'joie de vivre' is gone.
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  drew sagan

  I have come to believe that most JW teachings (including the emphasis placed on the name "Jehovah") can be traced back to one fundamental point. It is about their perception of the world, and how they fit into a narrative which places them on the side of "good" and everybody else on the side of "evil".

  To be clear, individual JWs tend to focus more on how they are on the side of good, while occasionally discussing the "evil" ones. Each dogma they profess, whether it be the creation of Jesus (and subsuquent rejection of the trinity), soul sleep, or the "Jehovah" emphasis, helps reaffirm that they turely are on the side of "good", the clean people who are above the rest of us.

  To argue against the Bible is to argue against "Jehovah" and to argue against the WT's take on the Bible is to argue against a people that carry the name of God with honor.

  More specifically, you are not speaking against Jehovah but are actually speaking against them (at least that is how they percieve it). Referencing Jehovah is diversion from the hard truth, that they are the ones that feel threatened. They must be right at all costs, because they have emotionally invested heavily into the hopes, desires, and dreams of the group. To accept that a dogma is not true would be suicide, it destroys their perceived reality.

  It's not discussed here often, but I sometimes think that the first thing a person does when they are leaving the JWs is to start detaching themselves emotionally from all of the hopes and promises. They muster up some humility, realize that they don't know everything, and start listening.
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  OnTheWayOut

  Thanks Heaven. Others may take your statement to task here in this thread: Prove that God exists.
  I am not wanting debate over such statements. I am talking about strategy to penetrate a JW's thinking (or lack of thinking).
  
  It may work for some to have them try to prove the most basic, that God exists. But for my JW loved one, and many others, it simply causes the JW to dismiss anything I have to say on the matter. "If you want to question God or the Bible, then there isn't any point to this discussion" is my wife's answer to such challenges.
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  OUTLAW

  Other religions use the name Jehovah..

  The name is a 14th century translation mistake,made by a Catholic Monk..

  Without the Catholics..

  Jehovah`s Witness`s would`nt have a Name for their Religion,or thier God..

  ........................LOL!!...OUTLAW
  
  
  
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  OnTheWayOut

  They muster up some humility, realize that they don't know everything, and start listening.

  Drew, that is an encouraging thought. In my case, the wife recognizes her own limitations, her ignorance of what's what in the vast world.

  Maybe a specific example: My JW would be a champion of women's rights, racial minority rights, but her answer is the same as WT's answer.
  Just wait for "Jehovah" to destroy 99.9 % of the people and the remainder (servants of "Jehovah") will automatically be fair to women and different racial groups. The hatred and oppression out there is not within the group.

  Of course we know that WTS oppresses women, but they fall back on saying that Genesis says that MAN was created in His image and the women are a compliment, subordinate. JW's think that only their group overall has no racial hatred. So my JW thinks she is a champion of women's rights and racial minority rights by being a JW. At the same time, she doesn't even bother to think about the rights of homosexuals because, in her view, they simply reject the Bible's (iow, the WT's) commands. "They just deserve to be destroyed" would be her thought.
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  OnTheWayOut

  Outlaw, that's good. The thing here- JW's will say that "Jehovah" had to use someone in Babylon the Great to get His name known until it was near the time of the end when He would establish "true worship" again. But I like what you say. In my case, I cannot challenge the name on any level with my JW. She dismisses the argument because "the name" is part of her deepest level of belief.
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  drew sagan

  fwiw,

  I think that many former JWs focus too heavily on specific doctrines and teachings. Those things are tools, tools that the WTS uses to prove a bigger point, namely the "us vs. them" narrative. Every JW in one way or another buys into that story, and has put some emotional capital into it. Focus on the specific "tools" and you become lost in the clutter.

  In my own case, I remember quite clearly a point in time when I was just starting to think about the possibility that I (JWs) might be wrong. If I was wrong, could that possibly mean that the people I looked down upon where right? This was a fearful thought! I enjoyed my own perceived status over other people and I didn't want to give it up. I quickly found a way to reaffirm to myself that I was indeed correct, and moved on.

  But eventually I couldn't do it anymore, and began to search the web for other opinions ( I was just too miserable). I think the proper method is to hold out and wait for others to reach that point. The best you can do is create an atmosphere where there is no fear so that a person can fully express themselves.
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  OUTLAW

  OTO..

  I see your point..

  Still..The subject for disscussion is..:"JW's deepest level of belief that Jehovah" as defined by WTS is God and WTS must be "right" because they carry HIS name?"

  It`s impossible to argue with logic like that,if the name cannot be discussed..

  ..Or..Maybe not..

  If I called myself a Brain Surgen,would that automaticly make me a Brain Surgen?.....Capable of perfoming Brain Surgery?

  Of course not..

  Lets leave out the name Jehovah,and replace it with God..

  If I call myself God`s Witness,does that automaticly make me a Witness of God?.....Capable of Speaking in Gods Name?

  Of course not..

  Claiming to be someone,with special skills,or special association..Does not make it so..

  .......................OUTLAW