What would it take for you to conclude that the WBTS is not God's channel?

by Mickey mouse 87 Replies latest jw friends

  • sammielee24

    I asked this same question to another JW - and he wouldn't answer either.

    So I rephrased it - if the WTS told you tomorrow that they had new light and that they had misunderstood past teachings about the trinity, that they now accepted the trinity, would you still remain a Jehovahs Witness???

    If the WTS came out tomorrow and told you that they had new light and past teachings about government involvement was misunderstood, and that you coud in fact vote and hold public office, would you still remain a Jehovahs Witness??

    If the GB tomorrow moved entirely out of the USA, shut down all their real estate and took all the money with them - leaving all of the congregations destitute, the Kingdom Halls foreclosed on and without God/GB leading them, would you still remain a loyal JW?

    If the WTS tomorrow told you to gather at the KH closest to you in order to shut yourself in and wait for Armeggedon to arrive at midnight and if at midnight, the GB played simultaneous video messages to all of those in the house, telling you to prepare for Armegeddon by drinking some refreshment laced with a sedative to make the transition easier, would you do it? Would you force your baby to drink the water too? Would you be willing to do what they said in order to sleep until the promise of waking up in the New Order was fulfilled? How loyal a JW are you - that is the test. sammieswife.


    MickyMouse..Reniaa continually does this sort of thing.....Reniaa will go on and on about anything,except the question asked.....Thats why people get pissed with her........................OUTLAW

  • Vinny

    Awwww, Reniaa wants to show us a little list why she thinks Watchtower is God's organization. (how sweet of her) Only, there were some things MISSING from porr Reniaa's little list. 1914 came and went. 1925 came and went. Beth Sarim (was huge WT embarrassment) and came and went. 1975 came and went. The generation of 1914 came and went. The 20th century came and went. Vaccinations stomped out polio, diptheria, tetanus, flu, cholera, measles, mumps, yellow fever, rubella and more. Organ transplants were never the same as "cannibalism" as Wt land stated and have saved or extended hundreds of thousands of lives. Many times dropped doctrinal understanding has been brought back. (That aint not "light getting brighter" folks. That's called BLINKING LIGHTS.) How come these things aren't on your little list Reniaa? You see this is why Reniaa is fighting a losing battle. The WT was never God's anything. One look at the whole picture proves this without a doubt to any rational mind. But change is tough for some. It is not easy to see the truth for some JW's. That WT land is not what they say about themselves. There is NO PROOF ANYWHERE that supports God has been using WT Society. In fact there is a MOUNTAIN OF PROOF that God has never used them: http://www1.tip.nl/%7Et661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm Deal with that for a while Reniaa and JW's. (if you got about a week to read through it all). For example: Was God's spirit with WT when they said Organ Transplants was a "conscience" matter in 1961? Was God"s spirit with WT when they then said Organ Transplants are same as "cannibalism" in 1967? Or was God's spirit with WT when they said Organ Transplants are NOT the same as cannibalism in 1980? Was God behind all those changes each time? Did (((GOD))) get all those things wrong each time? Did God cause folks TO DIE by listening to the WT Society as the voice of God? AND THIS IS JUST ONE THING!!! We can do this same song and dance THOUSANDS OF TIMES. Yet Reniaa has no answers to these things placed on her lap many times. And how come they are not on any of her little lists? And that would be because Reniaa CAN'T REPLY!!! That's how bad defending WT world has become. Just telling you how it is once again. Let's take a little stroll Reniaa. Just you and me today. You can even lean on my shoulder if you need to. Cause facing the real JW facts is not an easy thing to do... I must say. So I am here for ya. An intelligent lady is approached by JW's at her home. They offer her a bible study and she says ok why not. Then, as we all know, the "Bible Teach" book is pulled out instead of the bible, but she goes along cause they tell her it's just used as a "guide" and that we are really studying the bible. (And hopefully they convince her to use the JW bible, but not too pushy quite yet). She goes to some meetings and gets love bombed. But even then says it seemed somewhat forced and unnatural, but it was still okay. She is told that JW's are God's exclusive channel today. She is told that God is using only JW's today. She is told that unless she becomes a JW that she (along with the whole world not JW) will be destroyed very soon. She gets scared about being destroyed, trusts what she is told and then decides to be a JW right away. But she can't. She has to wait until the next convention or assembly to get baptized. She also has to be going out in the door to door field service, placing WT and Awake magazines and trying to start new studies with the same bible teach book and the JW bible as well as going to all of the JW meetings. She also has to take a test by answering many baptism questions from three different elders scheduled over several weeks. Still she was told JW's are God's channel, that God directs the WT Society and always has since 1918 and is ready to be a JW. BUT THEN.... One day before getting baptized this intelligent woman decides to look up the JW's, on Google, just to see what others say. After all, if it's "the truth", it can sure stand up to close scrutiny. Right? But then... holy smokes... She seees.... THIS: http://www1.tip.nl/%7Et661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm And then learns that WT world has more holes in their doctrine than a whole pallet load of swiss cheese! She sees that they were wrong on vaccinations, organ transplants and alternative military service for a combined 85 years. She sees that every other religion on the earth, along with all bible scholars say that JW's ARE WRONG ON BLOOD. and sees many people and little children are allowed to die for this same sorry blood policy. She sees that the only people saying JW's are "God's Organization" are JW's themselves about themselves. She sees that she can't do Christmas, birthdays or holidays even though nothing in bible says not to. She sees that her own kiddies will be discouraged from playing organized sports, doing after school plays or other activities. She sees that a spiritual man in the USA cannot even carry a microphone because he has a clean, neat and trimmed BEARD. (poor little brother with a beard) She sees that she cannot even wear pants out in service or to meetings. She sees places like Red Cross and YMCA (and all the good they do) are part of satans world and she must stay away from. She sees that even if a little kiddie says somebody took their pants off and touched them where they should not, that unless there was another Witness to this activity, that no action could be taken against the adult. And in fact you could not warn other families with little kids even if you knew your kid was telling the truth. She learns that nobody is allowed to disagree with any of the changes in JW teachings without being counseled and unless accepting that counsel then being DISFELLOWSHIPPED AND SHUNNED FOR THE REST OF HER/THEIR LIVES. She learns that even if she just disagreed with just one teaching, or just decided she no longer wanted to remain a JW for whatever the reason, and handed in an official letter leaving the JW's, that she would be SHUNNED BY ALL JW'S INCLUDING HER VERY OWN FAMILY FOR THE REST OF HER/THEIR LIVES. She learns that the JW's predicted many times the end of the world, all in writing, but that each time it was proven FALSE and never happened. She learns that JW's said young kids will never grow old in this system, discouraging college, but that those kids are now indeed getting old and many are broke and wityh dead end jobs. She learns that Jehovah is NOT the actual name of God. That the actual pronunciation is unknown and that many people choose to use respectful titles instead (as Jesus himself did), rather than use a name is wrong when addressing the Creator of the universe himself. She learns that despite thousands of JW embarrassing mistakes and writings filling their entire 100 plus year history, that JW's today believe and teach they alone are God's chosen people today and that despite all these mistakes he will destroy all other religions and people of those religions leaving only JW's. She learns all these things along with THOUSANDS OF THINGS SIMILAR. Now, she decides NOT to get baptized. She says thank you JW's but it is just not for her. She no longer believes what the JW's say about themselves, in being God's only channel on earth today. She says the facts prove conclusively otherwise. The only reply given to her after all this is that "the light gets brighter and to keep waiting on God". Or an even sadder explanation that since bible characters made mistakes that it proves God is with JW's today (but somehow not with anybody else). This exact thing actually happens to people all the time, as was reported by a gal on the JWD. She did the whole JW song and dance for a while. She was almost ready to go under the water. But then, SHE LOOKED UP JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ON GOOGLE. And the rest is history, you might say. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/member/28624 You see Reniaa, you need to take off your blinders and see the facts as they truly are. The evidence is conclusive in this case. The WT Society is not God's anything. Otherwise many folks, myself and my wife and kids included, would HAVE NEVER LEFT. When a person is shown the facts as they truly are. And then cannot refute them (as you have not been able here Reniaa... though had many chances), yet then continues on as if nothing has changed, defending a position which is indefensible, GETTING BURIED ALONG THEWAY, such a person could rightly be described as being in DENIAL. This is why I rarely do the JW debate thing any longer. The results are always the same. Anybody that reads these kinds of threads objectively, will see that Reniaa's position of trying to defend the JW's as "God's organization today" has been resoundingly, utterly and emphatically destroyed and defeated beyond any shadow of a doubt again again and again. What can poor Reniaa do. Fine with me if you wish to be a JW Reniaa. At least you know all the facts now. Do what you want with them. But at least the story has been told. My hope is to help make sure others find out the entire set of facts before getting baptized, just as happened with that girl quoted above. Your continuing on as here if nothing has changed is only fooling yourself in the process Reniaa. Make no mistake about it, many have read your posts here on JWN and see how poorly you and WT world have faired here. You cannot defend this sorry WT history along with numerous CURRENT bad policies. http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part2.htm ALL OF YOUR ATTEMPTS HAVE BEEN TROUNCED. This is how it will always be Reniaa. You will always be running backwards defending the JW religion as "God's organization". Sometimes I do leave for a while just moving forward and letting the JW's be. But then something will come up which reminds me of just how evil these policies can be. My wife will be crying because her son, 23 years old, along with his two year old (our only grandson at this time) will not even take our phone calls much less say hello in person. Or I'll read about another person that DIED following the sorry JW blood policy. http://www.christiantoday.com/article/mother.dies.after.refusing.blood.transfusion.over.faith.fears/14391.htm Or not too long ago ago I walked into one of my kid's best friends in Safeway. We looked at each other crossing paths unexpectedly, and I smiled and nodded. She just looked away without even blinking an eye. I thought she probably forgot who I was. That is until my wife ran into her seconds later and told that JW that she was looking for me. And then that JW told her she just saw me and what isle I was on. Things like this happen every week. I am shunned labeled and judged by JW's as some kind of evil person. And what is our crime for all this? Just disagreeing with WT doctrine. Which is why sometimes folks like me will show up and do the WT smackdown thing to people like you Reniaa. Which after one look at this or any of your other threads, can be easily concluded is some easy thing to do! THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY IS NOT GOD'S ANYTHING. Sooner or later you will just have to face the music. All the best, Vinny

  • treadnh2o


    Great post Vinny!

    Maybe the best I've read on this or any other site.

  • sammielee24

    Nicely put Vinny. sammieswife

  • The Almighty Homer
    The Almighty Homer

    Re: Reniaa, what would it take for you to conclude that the WBTS is not God's channel?

    Answer : a frontal lobotomy

  • reniaa

    I noticed the question assumed I followed wtbs, which I don't! I follow Jehovah then Jesus then the men in charge iuntil Jesus returns, I am part of the flock called Jehovah's witnesses.

    I hate loaded questions so I gave a comprehensive understanding of what I do want from a religion.

    If Jws started accepting trinity? no I wouldn't be one because it is one if the reasons I am with them, if they put crosses on there altars? this would also be a deal breaker.

    I choose a religion that doesn't offer me a multi-choice God but one that is in harmony with israelites ,Jews, early christians, the bible and what they believed.

    You guys make the mistake that it is other religions that we need to worry about but Jesus made it very clear that the issue would be within the faith not outside it in our times.

    Matthew 7:21-23
    "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

    Saying all roads lead to Jesus and just calling on his name is enough is contrary to bible teaching.

    I appreciate the people on this forum probs will never return to witnesses I guess there is a point when some gets beyond repair. but every side should get a eharing so if in a small way I provide some balance I am thankful.

    Jehovahs witnesses as a faith could be destroyed tomorrow but I would still be a follower of the one almighty God Jehovah and his beloved son Jesus my king and saviour so trinity-christianity is forever barred to me as a choice.


  • treadnh2o


    Stop claiming to be a JW.

    If you were a real JW you would not be here. I don't care for that religion, but at least I and other posters on this site don't make a mockery of it by claiming one thing (it's the truth) and living another (associating with apostates on this site)

    Think I am wrong? Ask your elders.

    So you can either leave or continue to prove yourself a fake!

  • Mickey mouse
    Mickey mouse

    OK, now we're getting somewhere. So in actual fact, you aren't a Jehovah's Witness at all?

    To be a JW you have to follow the "entire range of teachings" given by the "faithful and discreet slave" at the time. If you are putting limits on your willingness to believe their teaching 100% then you are no Jehovah's Witness.

    The thing is, most JWs would go along with it if the Governing Body suddenly revealed "new light" on the Trinity. They would be told that it is their duty to "wait on Jehovah" even if they don't understand something or it appears to be contrary to scripture. I am pleased to hear that isn't what you would do but please tell me, do you think the governing body are correct to ask this of the flock? Do you think individual witnesses are correct to follow men rather than the bible? How do you think Jehovah would feel about this?

  • Yizuman

    *tsk* *tsk* *tsk*

    Poor Reniaa!

    I've never met anyone as blind as you.

    Then again Morpheus warned us about people like you....

    (Wording changed from Matrix to WTS)

    "Morpheus: The WTS is a system, Reniaa. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

    Reniaa, are you hopelessly dependent on the WTS system?


Share this