Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

by Tuesday 347 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  besty

  reniaa is ignoring my question again

  you have my sympathy Yizuman as Reniaa + Pilchard are ignoring my trinity of questions on John 1:18. Which is a pity as Pilchard has talked a lot of sense so far on this thread, particularly with regard to Isa. 41:10,11.

  Not so bothered abour Reniaa's lack of response - that tells it's own story - but Pilchard was like a breath of fresh air after Reniaa's mangling of the English language - its laughable that someone who tortures what is presumably their native tongue presents themselves here as a pseudo-expert in Ancient Greek. Thats the the Internet for you. Nobody knows you're a dog. Unless you can't help it but reveal it.:-)
• 

  Pilchard

  besty:

  Perhaps you would be better to address your question to the NWT Translation Commitee? I can hardly speak for them.
• 

  Pilchard

  UnDis said:

  The Hebrew word used in Proverbs 8:22 which is rendered "produced" in the NWT is "Qanah." That word had several different meanings, as the Brown-Driver-Briggs' Bible Dictionary points out:

  qânâh

  BDB Definition:

  1) to get, acquire, create, buy, possess

  1a1) to get, acquire, obtain

  1a1a) of God originating, creating, redeeming His people

  1a1a1) possessor

  1a1b) of Eve acquiring

  1a1c) of acquiring knowledge, wisdom

  1a2) to buy

  1b) (Niphal) to be bought

  1c) (Hiphil) to cause to possess

  Pilchard replies:

  Although not inspired the LXX which is an early Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures is invaluable in telling us how the Jews understood certain Hebrew passages in Jesus' day.

  In Pr 8:22 the LXX renders the word qânâh as ktizo in Greek:

  2936 ktizo ktid'-zo
  
  probably akin to 2932 (through the idea of proprietorship of the
  manufacturer); to fabricate, i.e. found (form originally):--create,
  Creator, make.
  see GREEK for 2932

  Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the LXX many times throughout the scriptures.
• 

  boyzone

  I just finished watching all 14 parts of bible Jim's series. All I can say is that if thats him "not firing on all cylinders" because he hasn't been well, I wonder what he's like when he's fit!
• 

  besty

  besty:

  Perhaps you would be better to address your question to the NWT Translation Commitee? I can hardly speak for them.

  Pilchard - that is a most disappointing copout for a seasoned apologist such as yourself. You have consistently. spoken for the WTS point of view on this and other threads. Why the sudden lack of response?

  If you don't have a better answer than that can I assume you are conceding the inconsistency of translation?
• 

  Pilchard

  Undis wrote:
  
  However, the Apostle Paul taught that there was only One God by Nature, the Creator, and that NO creature could be God by Nature and NO creature should be worshiped as God. All other gods are just so-called "gods," not gods by nature.
  
  Pilchard replies:
  
  *** 1 Cor 8:5a For though there are things that are called “gods,” whether in the heavens or on earth;
  
  So there are many things *called* gods. Obviously in name only.
  
  *** 1 Cor 8:5b as(hosper) there are many “gods” and many “lords;”
  
  In ADDITION to those there are many ACTUAL gods and lords.
  
  The Greek word (hosper-"just as") *demands* these are an additional group
  
  So here we have Paul telling us there are many gods. Some in name only but others that are genuine, bona-fide gods.
  
  *** 1 Cor 8:6a yet to us(hemin) there is one God...
  
  Notice the CLEAR qualification introduced to ensure we can't
  mistakenly apply this statement universally?
  It is the words "to us"(hemin). There is only one God "to us".
  
  The Greek word (hemin - "to/for us") demands the statement can
  NOT be applied as a universal truth. Merely a relative one.
  
  So VERY CLEARLY the Christians have ONLY ONE God out of the
  VERY MANY gods that exist, both in name only and genuine bonafide gods.
  
  And who is this God?
  
  *** 1 Cor 8:6b ...the Father...
  
  
  Yes, the Father. Not the son and not the ghost.
  
  Out of all the gods, Christians have only one God, the Father.

  ---

  besty wrote:

  If you don't have a better answer than that can I assume you are conceding the inconsistency of translation?

  Pilchard replies:

  I spend virtually all my time arguing from several translations, occasionally including the Greek texts where appropriate. I never use the NWT in debating the Bible or JW doctrine. Therefore I have had less reason to examine the underlaying Greek in any detail.

  All translations have their limitations and none are perfect. However I am more interested in debating doctrine rather than translations.

  ---

  PS:

  Does anyone know why I am restricted to 10 posts per 24 hour period?

  Is there some way to get this restriction lifter?
• 

  booby

  Reniaa. I'll try again. Is Jesus divine and if so what does this mean.
• 

  booby

  Pilchard. Are all humans the progeny of adam and eve? If so and I think they are then of whom are these genuine, bona-fide gods the progeny of and if it is Jehovah which it seems they must be what does this tell us? Just a question I have.
• 

  isaacaustin

  And bear in mind the concept of the trinity before you procede to answer by refuting the concept of modalism. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are 3 separate, distinct individuals- each having a different role. They each share the same nature as God (the same as you and I share the same human nature) and perform their roles in perfect harmony and unity. For this reason their operation is as one spiritual flesh, one entity, one God. If they did not operate in such perfect harmony we would not have one God, and we would have polytheism.

  With this in mind...go ahead and proceed.
• 

  Mad Dawg

  Pilchard said:

  So VERY CLEARLY the Christians have ONLY ONE God out of the
  VERY MANY gods that exist, both in name only and genuine bonafide gods.

  Ummm, Pilchard, are you a Mormon? Seriously. This is exactly what Mormons teach. That there are many gods, but we only have one of the many for ourselves. Are you or have you ever been a JW? You do realize that if you believe that if there are many gods, regardless of whether or not we worship them, you are a polytheist, right?