COGNAC - So if you were my daughter you would have liked it too ? Good - I was hoping it would cause a good reaction.
Oh, yes!!! I think I would have had tears in my eyes!
Sending Out a Letter to My JW Daughter - Give Me Your Thoughts Please
by flipper 82 Replies latest jw friends
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flipper
VINNY- I understand there is a need to eventually discuss with my daughter about the deceptions of the cult - but first I have to build up the personal relationship with her as it's been a year and a half almost. There has to be trust, rapport, and understanding before I can try extracting her from the cult. That's just common sense. Another variable that you aren't aware of is my ex-wife a witness ( her mother ) has constantly dissed me in the 11 years since our divorce as being rebellious against the elders and has made this impression on both my young daughters in their 20's. So I'm not only fighting with cult indoctrination here - I'm fighting with a slanderous ex-wife , a fanatic JW who takes any opportunity to diss me. Perhaps you understand why I'm so cautious. ANYTHING I say will inevitably go back to my daughters mother- and she is famous for twisting the reality of what is said about me into a complete lie and fabrication. So- I choose my words carefully.
OTWO- Good suggestions you have. Thanks for posting the original letter from my daughter. Perhaps that will enable people to see more fully the situation. I agree care is in order on how I proceed.
COGNAC- I'm glad it touched you ! I hope it touches my daughters emotions as well
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flipper
Bumping this up so you can see the response given to the letter thread by my daughter to my wife and me . Thanks, all responses welcome
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Quandry
Mr. flipper,
I loved your letter. Patience is called for.
She is definetely in defense mode, as shown by her letter. You MUST "tread lightly." I am sure all is compounded by the fact that you are no longer with her mother. This was not stated in her letter, but probably is "brewing" under the surface.
Your daughter may never come out of the WTS grip. That is a fact. But perhaps she will warm up enough to have a relationship of sorts with you. If there are grandchildren, you may be able to see them.
If you push, you may lose all. YOU know best....
If she discusses your letter with anyone from the Hall, what can they say to down your letter? That you love her and think of her often, and are concerned for her future?
Yes, she may counter with, "In ten years, I see myself in the new system." However, your letter may begin the start of thought processes about her future, and how long the WTS has been saying "Soon, it will be here soon."
Yep, you did great!!!
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flipper
QUANDRY- Good points you make. I do indeed need to tread lightly- as you mentioned I do know my daughter. But I also know that this older daughter of mine, the 22 year old, is sentimental like her dad , and is a very loving person in her authentic, real personality. So I am trying to appeal ONLY to her authentic personality- not the cult personality. Very true what you mention- I'm sure she has lingering sadness that her JW mom and I didn't work out from our divorce in 1998 when she was younger- so I'm sure it definitely comes into play. I just want to have a father/daughter relationship again. And I know the thoughts I mentioned about the future will linger in her subconscious mind- especially as she sees year after year that no Armageddon has come. It will make her wonder. Thanks for your kind words
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Vinny
Paragraphs breaks are all messed up and uncorrectable. No idea why. Sorry.
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Vinny
Sorry I could not reply yesterday, Was a busy Friday to say the least.
I can understand why you might choose the direction you have Mr Flipper. It is the course of least resistance here. Say only nice things. Appeal to her emotions. The most you can be accused of is ignoring most of her letter and then killing her with kindness. But I still believe you may be making a mistake by completely ignoring what she wrote. Her entire letter to you and Mrs Flipper was about the JW religion. And you ignored all of it in your reply. The fact her mother is a Nazi-JW, only adds even more reason, IMO, to take advantage of an opportunity to share critical information with her wrapped up in love, kindness and humility. She is shunning you NOW. She only replied to you because not replying at all (to your gift) would put her and her faith in a very negative light. And her entire reply was all about the JW religion and your coming back to it. I would completely concur with your direction of just being nice and throwing love all over her if she did not mention religion at all in her letter to you and Mrs Flipper. Or, if religion was just barely touched on in her reply. But Flipper, religion was ALL SHE TALKED ABOUT IN HER REPLY. Why is she shunning you now? Because you left the JW religion. What did she talk about in her letter to you? Your leaving the JW religion. What could you have mentioned in your reply? Why you left the JW religion. Look at it this way for a moment Flipper: Imagine you are my own fleshly brother, and we have always been very close siblings. But then recently you invested money with me for a project that I recommended. And through blatant mismanagement and carelessness I squandered all of that investment. For one year and three months you are really angry at me and have absolutely no contact with me. Finally after I send you and the wife a nice anniversary gift, you reply back talking only about what happened in my mismanagement of your money and how it really bothered you that I was so careless with your savings. But then in my reply back to you, all I talk about is going hiking together and having some good fun times etc etc... without ever addressing the very subject that has had you so upset. You see, she brought this subject, that is bothering her, up in great detail in her letters to both you and Mrs flipper. Huge difference in my view because of this. Plus she is shunning you today without reason. You are not even disfellowshipped or disassociated. You could surely have said something in a very loving and kind manner addressing the issues she brought up. You, of all people (who clearly loves her), could surely say in a very kind, loving tone why you no longer go to the Kingdom Hall. It could have given her some very needed food for thought. It would have addressed her very letters to both you and Mrs Flipper. Something along the lines of: I understand why you are hurt and even crushed that I no longer go to the meetings and certainly understand why you want me to return to the Witnesses again. You have always loved me (and I know this) and I am fully aware that you want me to be with you in God's new world forever. As you well know I raised you and taught you to be a Witness and to believe everything you now do. This is how I chose to raise you. My decision to leave, then, was the hardest thing I ever had to do. I cried many nights realizing how difficult this would be for everybody involved. I never wanted to hurt any of you. I love you all! This was a truly agonizing decision to make. I did not leave the witnesses to pursue some kind of wicked or sinful lifestyle. I hope you realize this. Please know that I am still the same person that raised you and my love for you is no less today than ever before. I have always tried to be a fair and reasonable person while on this earth. As I hope you will also want to be. But what do we do when our long held cherished beliefs are truly challenged? Do we just close our eyes to the truth? What would you do? Do you think it's the reasonable thing to do to simply go along with a set course of beliefs and just ignore anything else that may come along that actually challenges or even possibly refutes what was accepted before? If we no longer support a set of beliefs or teachings, as we did for sometimes years before, is it being honest with one's self then to just look the other way, and in fact even continue to teach something to others that you no longer believe in or accept yourself? You see dear daughter this is what's happened to me. I never wanted to leave the Witnesses. I believed that they had the truth, as you do today. I shared this belief with others for many years as you well remember. And as you also know I was a ministerial servant for six years trying to help the congregation as much as I could. But that does not mean that we cannot be wrong about a belief. Believing something is right does not always make it right. And if we change what we believe in, but still try to maintain love, respect, kindness, love of God and neighbor and so more (as In have tried); how right to have to be labeled, judged and even shunned as some kind of evil man solely for following one's conscience. For example: I used to teach others in our territory, along with the congregation (when I had meeting parts) that abstention from blood was a biblical requirement. Regardless of the circumstances.... and even if death would be the result. This is what Jehovah's Witnesses as we both know believe and teach. And so did I. So then, what do I do when I learn, through diligent study and research, and heartfelt prayers and meditation that allowing a young child to die, in a situation where a blood transfusion could possibly save them is not Jehovah's will at all? Just one read of Matthew chapter 12 can show many sincere people that Jesus taught life was far more valuable than following the letter of the law. He said, "I want marcy and not sacrifice". In fact Jesus even shows how the life of an animal would be spared rather than following the letter of the law, and went on to say how much more valuable, then, a human life is over an animal's life. And how that abstaining from blood always had to do with the slain animal. And then how even the most orthodox Jewish person today, abstaining from all animal blood (by eating Kosher foods) do allow blood transfusions in life and death situations. And then to learn the Society had actually forbid vaccinations and organ transplants for a total of 33 years, only to later on say these procedures are now okay to have, only added more reason for me to believe the Society is wrong about blood today.
So do I continue not only believing what I think is no longer correct, but do I also go on teaching something I no longer believe in to others? As much as I tried I simply could not do that. My conscience would not allow me to. Which is one reason why I simply stopped associating with the Witnesses. Because as you know I would have teach this belief on blood to new ones I would meet in the ministry. Like I said, I did not want to leave the witnesses, but what else could I do? I do not want to lose you either. I hope you can see how difficult this has been for me too. The same applies to hard shunning people that simply leave the Witness faith. etc etc **** Anyway, I'm sure you get the point by now. You can lovingly, compassionately and honestly share why you have done what you have done, by leaving the Witness religion, with your daughter that may also help her to see some of the very issues herself in a new and better light. And if she decides to shun you for doing that, she would have likely shunned you (as she already is) if you said nothing at all, but still refused to go back to the meetings. Look forward to hearing how it goes. And hoping for nothing but the best for all of you! Vinny -
flipper
VINNY- With all due respect- I understand you are trying to be helpful. Some of your suggestions are good actually in my opinion. The part about hurting the family , and doing what I felt was right, etc. But - The part about saying I realized I couldn't " support a set of beliefs and teachings " is NOT the thing to say to witness relatives ( especially when an ex-wife with a vendetta gets wind that I say those words- it will go right to my former elders who will call me into a JC, DF me on the spot and my 80 something year old JW parents will then shun me. It would be like shooting myself in the foot ! And then mention that I disagree with the blood issue as well ? I couldn't even GO THERE with a JW relative unless I expected to get strung up before a judicial committee ! Yes my ex-wife the witness is a Nazi ! Passive aggressive, manipulative, and has been in competition with me for the last 11 years since my divorce for the affection of my daughters - and my fading son ! All she would need is for me to slip up and open my pie hole incorrectly - and it would undo everything I've tried to accomplish in this recent letter appealing to my daughters sense of family, caring, and real love. Doctrinal issues are not what's at stake here - trying to get my daughter to think for herself with a loving , authentic, non-cult mind IS what's at stake. And a person doesn't accomplish that by trying to put down their beliefs ! A wall WILL go up and communication will be lost. I'm not willing to take that chance. I've waited a year and three months for her to talk to me - not gonna take a chance at challenging her AT THIS TIME in her beliefs. Once our relationship has been built up and we are closer - then perhaps down the road I will try that - but not before. Thanks
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LUKEWARM
Hi Vinny,
I always enjoy reading your posts - can you post the letter your wrote to your step daughter or provide a link if its posted somewhere.
Flipper - Best wishes to you as you reach out to your daughter...
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reniaa
hi flipper
it is a nice letter but..will she see these words as your own? something you would normally say to her? I mean if you have copied it from another source and reworded parts will she realise it? because vinny has a point if you don't address anything she said in her previous letter not even acknowledging her issues, she might see this letter in a "your a cult member so I have to humour you" light.
The fact is on here people like to paint witnesses as brainless cult members but we are not . You may no longer believe what we do and completely think our beliefs are wrong and hate them but we are still intelligent humans that know the choice we have made and the problems that arise from it, especially living among people who believe things completely differently and having to avoid the influence of former members whose agenda is to shake our faith in Jehovah. The threat of loss of faith is a scary thing because it takes away our hope.
You say in the letter your daughter said you constantly had a go at the witnesses to her, is this true? Maybe a simple apology in the letter and say you would avoid bad mouthing witnesses etc, maybe try and come to an agreement to meet for family matters but neither discuss religion. this way you are addressing her points not just ignoring them.
I have tried to answer you as honestly as I can on reading your letter it did feel a little staged but it did still show you loved her.
Reniaa.