** Asking the Hard Questions **

by FlyingHighNow 73 Replies latest jw friends

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    FHN, I respect your views, but I believe some of us love evil more than good, and will choose it no matter what. The Father leaves the door open for His prodigal children to return always. Jesus is the savior of the world, for those that accept his love. Have mercy on us, and on the whole world. Yet sadly, some of us will never accept it. Some of us will never want the good. I am sorry to say this. God respects our choices and lets us have our way. By the way, I love that picture of JPII from your link, it makes me tear up. I had a rosary that he blessed, and I gave it to a member of my wife's family that was visiting us in the US so she could use it to pray, I sensed she needed it more than I did being almost alone in her country and her immediate family all JW.....with a CO father and pioneer mother and a brother sick with aids (poor boy, he caught it from men and I believe his upbringing and relationship with his father left him with deep emotional needs left unmet). The person that gave me the rosary was dissapointed I gave it away, but I sensed it was more needed somewhere else.

    BTS

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    I asked my local library to order the movie The Shoes of the Fisherman for me. My mother and her mother took me to see the movie when it was current and playing at the theaters in Morgan City, LA. All of us were very moved by the film.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    asked my local library to order the movie The Shoes of the Fisherman for me. My mother and her mother took me to see the movie when it was current and playing at the theaters in Morgan City, LA. All of us were very moved by the film.

    I have never seen it.

    By the way, that was a lovely picture you posted on the "gray hair" thread, you were a very beautiful girl. Had I been 15 then and known you, I suspect I would have been quite smitten.

    BTS

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Burn, thank you for the sweet compliment. You would love the movie as it is about the death of the Pope and the choosing of the next Pope and is very educational and touching.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    FHN

    A jealous, angry, torturous God is not consisent with love. One of the Bible's portrayal of God is not true. Take your pick.

    I don't get to pick or choose. Nor is there any contradiction here. You think that your little trick can strip God of His deity? You make God less than human. You imply that God has no right to be angry, when man hates Him. You also imply that God is obligated to you and you think you are in position to judge God. God is not jealous in the sense that he envies your righteous love of some other thing or person, because you have no such righteousness. It is sin for you to love anyone or anything more than Him. You also lable God's justice as "torturous".

    1Co 13:3

    And though I give out all my goods to feed the poor, and though I deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, I am profited nothing. 4 Charity has patience, is kind; charity is not envious, is not vain, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave indecently, does not seek her own, is not easily provoked, thinks no evil. 6 Charity does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices in the truth, 7 quietly covers all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Charity never fails. But if there are prophecies, they will be abolished; if tongues, they shall cease; if knowledge, it will be abolished. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when the perfect thing comes, then that which is in part will be caused to cease.

    Jesus clearly modeled this kind of love when He humbled Himself, and came in the form of a servant. Not because He was obligated to anyone, but because of those, He chose to love. Those whom He chose before the foundation of the world. Yes, my God is all these things and much, much more.

    He does not owe His love to anyone. In fact, He is free to justly hate anyone He chooses, that is what we deserve. After all, it is His creation. It's truly miraculous that He chooses to save or redeem anyone.

    Tell me is there any difference between your god and a goldfish in a fishbowl?

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Deputy Dog, you clearly are a fundamentalist in your views of God. I respect that you believe as you do. My feelings about that kind of God is that he was invented by exasperated or evil humans to control the behavior of other humans. He is an insult to human dignity and to the real God. Like the God of Jehovah's Witnesses, he is a great big, bullying, abusive parent. No matter how rebellious our children are, it is unethical to use terrible fears of severely abusive punishment to control their behavior or to discipline them.

    God certainly can feel anger and dismay with us earthly creatures, but that does not mean it would be okay for him to torture very good people, right along with very evil people, simply because they didn't say some Save Me/born again prayer. How ridiculous.

    You have the right to believe in your bully god. And I just feel a bit sad for you that live under that kind of threat. I believe God finds other more effective and just ways to help his intelligent creatures and that his love truly never fails. When a human parent beats, burns, tortures and emotionally abuses a child, we all see that it is clearly not an act of love nor is the parent behaving in a loving manner. Why do some check their reasoning skills at the door though, and believe their heavenly father is capable of that kind of abuse and even justified in it, over some petty legality.

    Which is superior? A god who saves only a few people? Or a god who is wise enough to save all? Since you believe Christ poured out his blood to save humankind, don't you believe his sacrifice is worth much more with every life saved? The more he saves, the more precious his blood becomes. In other words, Jesus blood and sacrifice becomes more valuable with every life it saves. It becomes more effective.

    Which is superior? A world where the majority of humankind and wayward angels are locked away somewhere burning and suffering everyday until the end of time? Or a world where every creature eventually returns to God and evil is perfectly conquered by good. Good finally overcomes evil, shows its self superior to evil 100% and nowhere does evil or suffering exist?

    You may have your god. You are welcome to him. Thank goodness God will forgive this tortuous god idea.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    FHN

    Deputy Dog, you clearly are a fundamentalist in your views of God.

    Oh really? Thanks for pointing that out. It's a shame you don't know what that means.

    Like the God of Jehovah's Witnesses, he is a great big, bullying, abusive parent. No matter how rebellious our children are, it is unethical to use terrible fears of severely abusive punishment to control their behavior or to discipline them.

    As I've said, I don't believe, nor does the bible teach, that God sends any of HIS children to hell.

    God certainly can feel anger and dismay with us earthly creatures, but that does not mean it would be okay for him to torture very good people, right along with very evil people, simply because they didn't say some Save Me/born again prayer. How ridiculous.

    That would be ridiculous, if that were the case. None of His children go to hell. Also people don't get saved because they "say some Save Me/born again prayer". But God's children do thank Him for there salvation, and do ask for, and receive forgiveness.

    Which is superior? A god who saves only a few people? Or a god who is wise enough to save all? Since you believe Christ poured out his blood to save humankind, don't you believe his sacrifice is worth much more with every life saved? The more he saves, the more precious his blood becomes. In other words, Jesus blood and sacrifice becomes more valuable with every life it saves. It becomes more effective.

    First, I don't believe "Christ poured out his blood to save humankind" Christ died for His children (the elect) not the children of the devil (the reprobate). His blood is precious to me, because He died to save me.

    Christ's blood means nothing without justice. I'm sure as a human, you would want to rule the universe that way. If God were unjust (as you would need or discribe Him to be), there would be no need for Christ's blood. He could just wink at your sin and move on.

    How precious is Christ's blood to you? Sounds like you really don't think you need it. You think you are a good person in God's eyes. God didn't spare Jesus, His own Son. You think you are to good to be punished in God's eyes?

    Which is superior? A world where the majority of humankind and wayward angels are locked away somewhere burning and suffering everyday until the end of time? Or a world where every creature eventually returns to God and evil is perfectly conquered by good. Good finally overcomes evil, shows its self superior to evil 100% and nowhere does evil or suffering exist?

    Again, How is evil defeated by an unjust God? Winking at sin is not just, It makes Christ blood of no value at all.

    You may have your god. You are welcome to him. Thank goodness God will forgive this tortuous god idea.

    May God have mercy on your soul.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Dep, I've said enough to you. You now how I feel.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Oh yeah, and God will have your mercy on your soul, even though you grossly misrepresent him.

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Having visited an Episcopalian church several times (for my own reasons, definitely not to convert) I just want to say that the culture of open mindedness and acceptance was a welcome change for me. It also gave me the opportunity to get to know how different people view god, and how they benefit...

    I don't want to involve myself in the debate with Dep Dog, other then to say, your god is someone I would stay away from. Let me guess, he will destroy me... As I always say, "Get in line." There are a ton of gods who have me in their crosshairs. They are pissed I don't believe in their evil, manipulating, controlling ways....

    Oops, I guess I did involve myself there... Sorry...

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