70 years = 607? (page 2)

allelsefails

Thanks for all the posts. Lots of good research. I'll search the old posts. I do think it is worth trying with many witnesses. For me the 607/586 debate started all my "real research". It opened my eyes and allowed me to have an honest look at myself. The whole concept of types in the Hebrew scriptures = something bigger later on is pretty silly. Many things pointed forward to the Christ and his roles of mediator, high priest, sacrifice, etc..., but I don't see any others. Certainly not There are a lot red herrings in WT dogma. I'm trying to do some research to boil some of these down to one key point where the logic fails. Trying to eliminate the need for endless debates on archaeology or understanding a Hebrew or Greek word. The last paragraph of this post is my attempt to do this. Just ask the one right question that can replace the lie with a logical rejection of it. Thanks again - allelsefails

whatcanIsay

Why do they think Daniel’s “seven times” prophecy has a fulfillment beyond Nebuchadnezzer’s seven years of insanity? I can find no evidence of this in scripture. It seems to me to be a miraculous prophecy that took place exactly as Jehovah prophesied thru Daniel.

That is because it is not in scripture

I think you said it all! You know the people are always wanting to read more into Nebuchadnezzer seven years of insanity; he ate grass, went crazy, was forgiven by God, then gained his kingship back! God forgave him! What more do they want! Make something more of the seven times!

Perhaps they need to spend the Cabala! to see what the numbers means this time!

Germatria for Christians! I dont think I like it! Interesting seven times means completion! Yeah right! LOL!

whatcanIsay

That is the real point. "7 times" has nothing scripturally to do with the gentile times or time of the end.

Good for you! that is right!

I remember how they came up with 7 times as 70 years! They take times, times and half of times to mean 3 1/2 years. So 7 times means 70 years! LOL

But you are still right it really has nothing to do with Gentile times ending! We are the Gentile times! It might have something to do with the Messiah birth! Although King Herod was a Gentile the (Roman Empire) still came in and conqured Jerusalem along with the destruction of the temple.

Anyhow the Gentile wars are still going on. THE GENTILE WARS Hey that sounds like a movie!

Leolaia

The incapacitation of a Gentile ruler is supposed to symbolize a period of Gentile hegemony over the earthly representative of God's kingdom (the Gentile times), and not just any ruler but the very Gentile ruler (Nebuchadnezzar) who overthrew God's earthly organization (Judah). This is so illogical it almost boggles the mind. The Gentile ruler Nebuchadnezzar symbolizes the very thing he destroyed whereas his own seven-year humiliation is supposed to symbolize Gentile supremacy, starting with his own rule!

whatcanIsay

God's earthly organization is Judah and yet God said that he was going to send his people the babylon to punish the false prophets of his earthly organization! So did he not put his earthly organization in exile so he could punish the prophets?

That has always been mind boggling!

scholar

allelsefails

The date 607 BCE is the only possibile date for the Fall of Jerusalem according to the Bible, the other dates of 586 or 587 BCE simply omit important biblical history so these dates fall short of the true date by twenty years. Apostates and secular scholars fail to give the Bible precedence over the interpretations of archaeology and thus fail to recognize the importance of the seventy years. The date of 609 bce is useless for the dating of the captivity because nothing happened in that year for the Captivity proper did not commence until the land was desolated in 607 BCE. 609 BCE is simply a 'furphy'.

There is much evidence that the seventy years was a period of captivity-desolation and servitude running from the Fall of Jerusalem to the Return of the Exiles and this view is supported by all of Scripture and the testimony of Josephus. There are many varied interpretations of the seventy years but not a single one of them is practical, based on Scripture, faithful to history and archaeology. A careful reading of the Zechaiah and Jerememiah texts prove the above as well as that of Daniel and Ezra and I have argued these points in some detail on this forum over the last seven or eight years.

There is clear evidence that the seven times prophecy of Nebuchadnezzer known as the Gentile Times had a major fulfillment after Nebuchadnezzer and this is clearly seen from a careful reading of the entire chapter 4 of Daniel in both the Masoretic text and the Old Greek for starters. Of course apostates have none of this but there specious pleadings well represented by the Jonsson nonsense amounts to opinion and an individual exegesis.

Further, what also proves the validity of WT Bible based chronology as developed by those 'celebrated WT scholars' is the simple fact that 607 BCE nicely and providentially begins the prophetic period of the Gentile Times ending in 1914 CE. Such a fact inspires faith and it is faith that forms the basis of prophecy.

scholar JW

leavingwt

Let the games begin.

ninja

lwt....your turn to buy the popcorn

leavingwt

Yep, and some of those sour gummy worms.

digderidoo

leavingwt ... Let the games begin....lol

Hi allelsefails,

Interestingly you have already given two alternative interpretations for the 70 year period. This leads some to argue that there can be two 70 year periods refered to in the bible.

For me though the WT societies weakest link is 537BCE, if you notice any quotations in their literature it uses the word 'probable', hardly a word that should be used when they then go on to speak with great accuracy the autumn of 1914.

What i personally find interesting is how CT Russell's calculations began with a 606 date, but then he counted the year 0 between 1BC - 1 AD. Then by some miracle at the same time it was realised there was no year zero, it was decided Cyrus announced his degree in 537BC as opposed to 536BC. If this didn't change the only alternative upon a realisation of no year zero would be to move the date forward to 1915, but we all know that was never going to happen.

Scholar ... Further, what also proves the validity of WT Bible based chronology as developed by those 'celebrated WT scholars' is the simple fact that 607 BCE nicely and providentially begins the prophetic period of the Gentile Times ending in 1914 CE. Such a fact inspires faith and it is faith that forms the basis of prophecy.

Interesting point, to JW's it is faith that forms the basis of this prophecy.

Paul

70 years = 607?

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