What would be the iceburg to the WT's Titanic?

by wobble 26 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Short of the leaders simply closing it down for it's red ink, I would have to say the best-case
  scenario for a sudden demise of the WT organization would be a major lawsuit against them
  for letting children die or for covering up some horrendous things, and more than one
  member of the Governing Body admits something in open court.

  What I am thinking is that they would feel painted into the corner and admit to some
  manipulation of scriptures/doctrines, thinking that their admission would lessen the
  cost of the lawsuit. After the admission, the news would pick up the story and run with
  it, making it bigger because a bunch of us former JW's were calling the news telling them
  how important the whole thing is.

  Take the example of Mrs. Joe Biden on Oprah. She tells Oprah that Joe was offered either
  the V.P. or the Sec. of State job. That sort of conflicts with Obama saying Mrs. Clinton was
  always the first choice. Instead of it dying there as a news story, imagine a bunch of
  former Clinton-for-President people calling the news and demanding an in-depth probe
  into what Obama really promised and why? Then imagine the news coming up with a
  quote that Obama needed a "white man" by his side to win the election. It all gets out
  of hand with racial tension building and the presidency is blamed for all kinds of problems
  nationwide. That's the kind of stuff that would be an iceberg.

  Tying that back to WTS, 2 GB members could admit that the blood policy was flawed, thinking
  that saying the members should decide for themselves would eliminate many follow-up
  lawsuits. But we would phone and email the networks and news and tell them why the
  members were not allowed to decide for themselves and how Hospital Liason Committees
  would show up in a little girl's hospital room to bully the doctors and parents and separate the
  grandparents from the scene. The news, just off to a slow week, picks it up and runs with
  it. Soon, doctors are declaring that they will refuse treatment to adult JW's and demand that
  courts take their children away.
• 

  besty

  Its not the fall that kills ya - its the sudden stop at the bottom :-)

  Likewise its not the iceberg that sinks the ship - its the outflow of buoyant air replaced by cold heavy water.

  So I would say the Internet is the iceberg that has fatally gashed the side of the WTShip and the buoyancy of cashflow is being replaced by cold heavy information. All that are left onboard are the old and the poor who are stuck below the water line in 3rd class. Some of them don't even know the ship is sinking as the crew are in denial, others are still clambering aboard as their previous ship was in even worse condition...
• 

  jamiebowers

  I think the Internet has caused tidal waves that are pushing the WT toward the iceberg of losing their religous tax expempt status in the US and probably many other countries. All of the information online is providing an education to current and potential jws and strengthening those of us who are apostates. Eventually someone somewhere is going to expose this evil group in a manner that will call for it being stripped of its tax exempt status, and then the cash flow problems will begin.
• 

  easyreader1970

  Outside of the entire Governing Body being indicted and convicted for some pretty horrible federal crimes of some sort, it's going to be hard to take down the organization with a direct hit. It's too big.

  As has been mentioned, it can run out of gas, though. If the money stops pouring in or is no longer sufficient to support all of its members, you will see the Organization respond with something panicky, which should be a big red flag to anybody paying attention. Mandatory tithing, heavy suggestion that people leave their proprerty to the Organization instead of their own children, and things like that.

  But I don't think that's likely to happen anytime soon.

  Our best hope is disease or poison. Something has to spread throughout the Organization, and the internet is our best bet for that. Sites like this one and youtube are a huge help. It pleases my heart when I see an ex-JW or anti-JW or even questioning-JW video and it has several thousand hits. There is enough damaging and legitimate information out there about the WBTS that people don't have to make things up. People can't say "that's not true."

  The only real hope the WBTS has right now, believe it or not, is young people. There are plenty of 40+ year old people dragging it on. Statistics already show that young people are flying out of the Truth like bats out of hell. At this rate, the Society has about 20 years of life left and then it will no longer be able to sustain itself, especially the congregations in the United States.

  I am confident that the Organization won't last much longer than 20 years or so, at least not in its current state. There will be pockets and fragments here or there but we are witnessing now the beginning of the end. We are already seeing signs of desperation. I predict that next the Society will act in such a way that it encourages some kind of persecution. Witnesses like it when they are being persecuted. It makes them feel useful. I am anticipating there will be some new arrangement where we have to act in such a way that is opposed to some secular authority. It's coming. It will backfire. Hardcore people will just take the persecution, but more people will leave. Young people won't even bother.
• 

  aniron

  It wasn't the iceberg that sank the Titanic, but design faults in the structure of the ship.

  Will there be something within the Watchtower organisation it self that will cause it to sink?

  Will factions form and break away, will there be divisions in the Governing Body?

  Will Bethel members say they have had enough of being treated like slaves and walk out?

  Will the very structure of the WT organisation , District Overseers, Circuit Overseers, Elders, itself implode?

  Will it like the Titanic as it sinks take many with it , while those who got away in the lifeboats watch?
• 

  drew sagan

  I tend to believe it would be any sort of scandal that was able to penetrate through the membership enough to create dissonants.

  The internal Watchtower organization will always make the exterior organization sacrifice for it's own survival. Those on the inside (I am referencing those actually working in the various departments and leadership positions inside the actual headquarters) have shown an attitude that they must retain control at all costs, even if it brings upon major suffering for those members on the outside.

  If however those on the outside got word of those on ths insides mismanagement of a particuliar issue of some sort, there is the possiblity that if enough JWs on the outside (i.e. real world JWs) organized and demanded change from the internal leaders a schism of some sort could come about.

  This could be brought on by financial problems (as some have mentioned), but I don't it's limited to that.
• 

  DaCheech

  I'm hoping, and doing my part to make sure their money flow is stopped. In other words I do not contribute while taking dozens of mags and throwing the majority in garbage.

  as far as the other theories go, those scandals will work on maybe 50% of dubs (young ones)

  let me tell you an example: I have a dub friend that has been mistreated by the elders, and rejected by all witness girls.... anytime he has a chance with a girl, the masses mess it up for him.... he even has brothers taking advantage of him when going out to group meals (gets stuck paying for the ones that don't bring cash).... he even has relatives that have been taken advantage and one of his female family members is deeply depressed and was one of those told not to procreate due to the end.

  this guy probably has 100 reasons to leave the witlesses, and he still takes it up the arse!

  when speaking to him about the injustices, i try to plant seeds and talk in code without revealing my apostate views, but he still takes it!

  needless to say he only has 30% of his family in the witlesses!...... so he could leave.

  there are thousands of these that you could show the smelly trash in the bag, but they looks at the beautiful color of the bag and says "that is a beautiful bag of gold"
• 

  besty

  I don't think the rank and file JW base their religious choice on how scandalous or not their religion is.

  Really it should be whether the religion is doctrinally and ethically sound, but its clearly not that either with JWs.

  The information is there on all the above counts - they are simply refusing to educate themselves.

  So I think the Internet is a massive tool for persuading would-be <Western> JW converts to look elsewhere for the meaning of life, and accomplishes that with little time spent compared to the efforts of the publishers to find anyone willing to even consider the possibility. Huge negative leverage.

  On the other hand what causes an active true believer to leave? Not the Internet alone - as Blondie said a few years back normally it takes a 1-2 punch combination.

  So my hope is for some confluence of JW's not being able to meet a proven public benefit requirement to retain tax free status in the USA or UK or other significant printing countries and other factors - perhaps Health & Safety legislation making it onerous to continue door to door preaching. Remember the knee-jerk scrapping of the S-8 due to the Data Protection Act?

  Imagine every publisher having to be certified possibly with a police background check and receive Health & Safety training?

  Every car vehicle used on Field Service needing additional safety checks and insurance cover?

  "Yes brothers, truly Matt 24:14 has been fulfilled in a great and wondrous way. From now on make it your business to preach a new hardened message of divine retribution soon to come, when and where your circumstances allow.....<insert more drivel here >"

  "Oh and by the way go to www.jw-cheapskate-joe.com to download all your literature."

  So change the nessage to one more likely to induce annoyance rather than indifference, scrap the mass printing, and duck out of public liability issues with door to door preaching, all the while confusing the R&F into thinking the end is even closer....

  Combine that with a mass land grab of KH assets into centralised control and some true believers might, just might, realise that all was not well in the wacky world of the WTS.

  Not hopeful though. Sorry.

  Almost any set of circumstances the WTS could find themselves in can be thought-stopped into 'persecution at the hands of Satan' or 'the end is surely closer now'

  The WTS has a well-proven revolving door of members - they are not so concerned with individuals - just so long as the overall number goes up each year. The trouble for them could well be the downward change in the economic profile of the members.

  Suckers for cults will be getting poorer every year that passes....
• 

  flipper

  In talking to a well known poster awhile back I remember this person telling me that someone, or some group with lots of money and an axe to grind with costly legal issues ( child abuse , etc. ) could bring a class action lawsuit against the society in enormous amounts and it would really put a dent in their " titanic ". But - it's going to take somebody or a group of people with lots and lots of $$$$$ to do it. Talking of millions and millions like happened in the Catholic settlements . Not the 16 million out of court suit they settled in 2007. So that was my friend's take
• 

  flipper

  Then again - I agree with OTWO - if some members of the GB got involved in grisly murders , multiple child molestations , or in some huge financial scamming of it's members in the manner of Jim Baker from the 1980's which would hit the headlines - it might cause more and more members to leave. Just some thoughts