Do the resurrected get to have babies?

by sass_my_frass 18 Replies latest jw friends

  • Olin Moyles Ghost
    Olin Moyles Ghost

    No. According to JW theology (and Matthew 22) resurrected people will not be married. Thus, they will not have children. Of course, in a traditional Christian context of a resurrection to heaven, this seems reasonable. But, when applied to the JW concept of a paradise earth, Jesus' statement to the Sadducees in Matt. 22:30 that "in the resurrection neither do men marry nor are women given in marriage, but are as angels in heaven" seems out of place.

    This account troubled me as a Witness. It seemed like a perfect opportunity for Jesus to witness about the paradise earth. But instead he used a heavenly example. And, remember, under Witness theology, the hypothetical widow in this account would not be a candidate for heavenly life, because she died before Jesus was resurrected.

    Sadly, many JW widows and widowers hope against hope that they will be able to reunite with their mates in the New Order. They reason that God's promise that he will "satisfy the desire of every living thing" means that, no matter what happens, they will be happy in the New System. Thus, they wait on Jehovah...and wait...and wait...

  • Plummet
    Plummet

    Are there any Publications to back this up. I tried to do a search and when it took me to the best of Section the Website goes blank.

  • still_in74
    still_in74

    this topic has always been sensitive subject for me even when I was a believer. This was waaaay to overboard.
    Thus I did some research on it and it turns out that, yes, resurrected cannot remarry in the NS
    - thus if you arent married you arent having sex either.

    This is the most rediculous degree of "speculation" the BOrg has ever done.
    Here is the reasoning

    ***

    w549/15p.575QuestionsFromReaders***

    What

    isthecorrectunderstandingofJesus’wordsatLuke20:34-36(NW):"The children of this system of things marry and are given in marriage, but those who have been counted worthy of gaining that system of things and the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage.In fact, neither can they die anymore,for they are like the angels, and they are God’s children by being children of the resurrection"?—H.K.,Canada.

    After that final test there will definitely be no marrying or being given in marriage then by those counted worthy of the new world and having the right to eternal life, just as angels have that right. But even before the gaining of the everlasting new system of things these ones brought back in the resurrection of mankind do not marry, because even prior to the final test they are children of the resurrection. Their being debarred from marrying and being given in marriage does not wait until their names are written in the book of life and they are counted worthy of the everlasting system of things. (Rev. 20:12, 15) By the time they return from the dead through a resurrection paradise will have overspread the earth and the token fulfillment of the procreation mandate will have been effected by the Armageddon survivors and their offspring. (Gen. 9:1; Matt. 24:37; Luke 23:43) That work will have been accomplished by those of the "other sheep" class now living and who survive Armageddon. They are not precluded from marriage and childbirth by the words of Jesus at Luke 20:34-36, since they never die and hence are not children of the resurrection.

    Jesus spoke thus in answer to a question raised by the Sadducees, who did not believe in a resurrection. They posed their question to Jesus regarding a woman under the law of levirate marriage, hence under Mosaic law and not a Christian. They were interested to know whether she or those in her class of humanity would marry in the resurrection, and, if so, whose wife would she be if she had previously had as husbands seven brothers, in accord with the levirate marriage arrangement. This woman under the law of Moses would have no heavenly hope, nor did the Sadducees know of a heavenly class. The question was concerning one resurrected in the flesh to live on earth. Hence Jesus’ answer concerns an earthly class.—Luke 20:27-33.

    When "this system of things" is brought to an end at Armageddon, then persons can no longer be children of it. Consequently, those who were once children of this system of things but who died cannot be children of it if they come up in a resurrection. Only by a resurrection can any of the dead enter into the new world, "that system of things." Having been counted worthy of a resurrection from the dead they will neither marry nor be given in marriage, as Jesus said. In this respect they will be like the angels, who do not marry and procreate their kind.—Matt. 22:30; Mark 12:25.

    But after their resurrection during the thousand-year reign of Christ under that new system of things, the question is, Will they prove worthy to become children of that system of things forever? "Gaining that system of things" means more than just rising from the grave and entering and making a start in the endless new world. Will these ones brought back in a resurrection of the unjust take up the way of integrity to Jehovah and maintain it? We know that some will fail to do so in the final test that comes at the end of the millennium, that they will fail to gain it, going down in death, and hence will not be among those to whom it is said, "Neither can they die any more." However, many others will maintain integrity right on through this final test and will be "counted worthy of gaining that system of things," and for that reason they can never die at the hands of any other creature.—Rev. 20:7-9.

    It is even reasonable and allowable to entertainthe comforting thought that those of the other sheep who now die faithful will have an early resurrection and live during the time when the procreation mandate is being fulfilled and when paradise conditions are being spread earth-wide and that they will share in this divinely given service. Jehovah holds that hope of service out to them now, and it seems reasonable that he will not let them lose out on it because of untimely death now, perhaps a death brought on because of faithfulness to him.—See "TheTruthShallMakeYouFree", pages 362, 363.

    So there you have it. If you die you will never be married or be given in marriage, thus never have kids in the new system. Yes, the billions of resurrected ones get to watch the hundreds of thousands of couples have children and imagine how nice (or boring) their sex must be. But, in the Garden of Eden Jehovah saw that Adam needed a partner. Adam was "perfect" at the time, sinless. The garden was "perfect". It was Jehohavs plan. So Jehovah lovingly provided Adam a wife.
    But Jehovah has since changed his mind and decided that resurrected men and woman will just live for eternity lusting over one another while never knowing the others love.

    Jesus spoke thus in answer to a question raised by the Sadducees, who did not believe in a resurrection. They posed their question to Jesus regarding a woman under the law of levirate marriage, hence under Mosaic law and not a Christian. They were interested to know whether she or those in her class of humanity would marry in the resurrection, and, if so, whose wife would she be if she had previously had as husbands seven brothers, in accord with the levirate marriage arrangement. This woman under the law of Moses would have no heavenly hope, nor did the Sadducees know of a heavenly class. The question was concerning one resurrected in the flesh to live on earth. Hence Jesus’ answer concerns an earthly class.—Luke 20:27-33.

    When "this system of things" is brought to an end at Armageddon, then persons can no longer be children of it. Consequently, those who were once children of this system of things but who died cannot be children of it if they come up in a resurrection. Only by a resurrection can any of the dead enter into the new world, "that system of things." Having been counted worthy of a resurrection from the dead they will neither marry nor be given in marriage, as Jesus said. In this respect they will be like the angels, who do not marry and procreate their kind.—Matt. 22:30; Mark 12:25.

    But after their resurrection during the thousand-year reign of Christ under that new system of things, the question is, Will they prove worthy to become children of that system of things forever? "Gaining that system of things" means more than just rising from the grave and entering and making a start in the endless new world. Will these ones brought back in a resurrection of the unjust take up the way of integrity to Jehovah and maintain it? We know that some will fail to do so in the final test that comes at the end of the millennium, that they will fail to gain it, going down in death, and hence will not be among those to whom it is said, "Neither can they die any more." However, many others will maintain integrity right on through this final test and will be "counted worthy of gaining that system of things," and for that reason they can never die at the hands of any other creature.—Rev. 20:7-9.

    It is even reasonable and allowable to entertainthe comforting thought that those of the other sheep who now die faithful will have an early resurrection and live during the time when the procreation mandate is being fulfilled and when paradise conditions are being spread earth-wide and that they will share in this divinely given service. Jehovah holds that hope of service out to them now, and it seems reasonable that he will not let them lose out on it because of untimely death now, perhaps a death brought on because of faithfulness to him.—See "TheTruthShallMakeYouFree", pages 362, 363.

    So there you have it. If you die you will never be married or be given in marriage, thus never have kids in the new system. Yes, the billions of resurrected ones get to watch the hundreds of thousands of couples have children and imagine how nice (or boring) their sex must be. But, in the Garden of Eden Jehovah saw that Adam needed a partner. Adam was "perfect" at the time, sinless. The garden was "perfect". It was Jehohavs plan. So Jehovah lovingly provided Adam a wife.
    But Jehovah has since changed his mind and decided that resurrected men and woman will just live for eternity lusting over one another while never knowing the others love.

    Oh, by the way, there will DEFINITELY be NO marrying after the 1000 years! Oh no! Just like the generation of 1914 will DEFINITELY never pass away before the big A. Just like the 144k was DEFINITELY sealed in 1935. And the princes will DEFINITELY be resurrected in 1925. And..... well I guess you see where I am goig with this. Yes, Franz was a mental case.
  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga

    Thank you for the back-up, Still_In! I'm glad to know I was right... their stand on it IS sad and crazy and bonkers!

  • Snoozy
    Snoozy

    You guys talk like it's really gonna happen....

    I would use the wording.."What the JW's teach"..not given as a fact. I believe the JW's teach that those that would make it through their Armageddeon would be able to have children possibly..but not if they die and come back to life....which will be a trick in itself...

    They teach this in accordance with Luke 20:34-36.

    In reading the above posts about the resurrection..I saw something that reminded me of a saying the JW's had.....The Sadducees didn't believe in a resurrection and that's why they were sad U see......

    Snoozy....

  • truthsetsonefree
    truthsetsonefree

    ***

    Questions

    ?

    IsitwiseforaChristianwhosematehasdiedtoremainsingleinthehopeofbeingreunitedinthefuture?
    w876/1pp.30-31QuestionsFromReaders *** From Readers

    How fine it is that a Christian should feel love for his or her mate even after that one has died! Some in this situation have remained single, not because of being content with singleness, but in hopes of resuming the marriage after the resurrection. While not being insensitive to the human feelings behind those hopes, we encourage such ones to consider some Biblical points.

    For instance, bearing on the matter are the apostle Paul’s words: "A wife is bound during all the time her husband is alive. But if her husband should fall asleep in death, she is free to be married to whom she wants, only in the Lord. But she is happier if she remains as she is." (1 Corinthians 7:39, 40) This shows that the marital bond ends when one’s mate dies. It was a kindness for God to inform Christians of this, for thus widows and widowers can weigh their emotional and other needs in deciding whether to remarry; they are not bound to the deceased.—1 Corinthians 7:8, 9.

    Does the Bible, though, indicate whether resurrected ones will be able to marry or to resume a previous marriage that was ended by a death? One account seems to bear on this question. It involved Sadducees who, while not even believing in the resurrection, came to Jesus trying to entrap him. They presented this problem involving brother-in-law marriage: "There were seven brothers; and the first took a wife and died childless. So the second, and the third took her. Likewise even the seven: they did not leave children behind, but died off. Lastly, the woman also died. Consequently, in the resurrection, of which one of them does she become the wife?"—Luke 20:27-33; Matthew 22:23-28.

    Christians are not under the Law, but a similar difficulty could be raised concerning them. For example: Brother and Sister C—— were married and had two children. Then he died. Sister C—— loved and deeply missed him, but she felt a need for companionship, financial support, sexual expression, and help with the children. So she married Brother M——, which union was as Scriptural as the first. Later he became ill and died. If the former mates were resurrected and marriage were possible, whom might she marry?

    Consider Jesus’ response to the Sadducees: "The children of this system of things marry and are given in marriage, but those who have been counted worthy of gaining that system of things and the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. In fact, neither can they die anymore, for they are like the angels, and they are God’s children by being children of the resurrection. But that the dead are raised up even Moses disclosed . . . when he calls Jehovah ‘the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob.’ He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living, for they are all living to him."—Luke 20:34-38; Matthew 22:29-32.

    Some have felt that Jesus was here referring to the heavenly resurrection, yet there are reasons to believe that his reply was about the earthly resurrection in the coming "system of things." What reasons underlie this view? Those questioning Jesus did not believe in him or know about a heavenly resurrection. They asked about a Jewish family under the Law. In reply Jesus referred to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, men who hoped for life again on earth. (Genesis 42:38; Job 14:13-15; compare Hebrews 11:19.) Those patriarchs, and millions of others, who are raised on earth and who prove faithful will be "like the angels." Though mortal, they will not die once God has declared them righteous for endless life.

    Human emotions today might make this a difficult conclusion to accept. But it is to be noted that nowhere does the Bible say that God’s resurrecting the faithful means restoring their marital status. Hence, no one believes that if Aquila and Priscilla have gained life in heaven, they have resumed their marriage. (Acts 18:2) And Joseph and Mary will evidently live in different realms—he on earth and she in heaven. (John 19:26; Acts 1:13, 14) Since none of us have lived in heaven, we cannot say what feelings Aquila, Priscilla, and Mary might have there, yet we can be sure of their finding full contentment in their heavenly service.

    Similarly, we have never lived as perfect humans. Thus we cannot be sure how we will feel about past relationships if and when we gain perfect human life in a paradise. It is good for us to remember that when Jesus made that statement he was a perfect human and therefore in a better position than we to appreciate the feelings of those who are "counted worthy of gaining that system of things." We can also trust that Jesus is able to ‘sympathize with our present weaknesses.’ (Hebrews 4:15) So if a Christian finds it hard to accept the conclusion that resurrected ones will not marry, he can be sure that God and Christ are understanding. And he can simply wait to see what occurs.

    There is no reason now to overemphasize this matter. The psalmist wrote: "Know that Jehovah is God. It is he that has made us, and not we ourselves. We are his people and the sheep of his pasturage . . . Give thanks to him, bless his name. For Jehovah is good." (Psalm 100:3-5) Our good God will certainly provide amply for our true needs if we are "counted worthy of gaining that system of things."—Job 34:10-12; Psalm 104:28; 107:9.

    God’s goodness is reflected also in his informing us that the death of a mate concludes the marriage. (Romans 7:2) Thus anyone who has lost a mate can know that he or she is free to remarry now if that seems needed or best. Some have remarried, thereby helping to fill their own present needs and those of their family. (1 Corinthians 7:36-38; Ephesians 6:1-4) Consequently, a Christian whose mate has died should not feel obliged to remain mateless now out of an expectation that former marriage mates will be reunited in the resurrection to life here on earth in the coming system.

    [Footnotes]

    If an Israelite died before his wife brought forth a son who could receive the inheritance, the man’s brother had to marry the widow with the view of producing a son by her.—Deuteronomy 25:5-10.

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    I'm inclined to think that the Dish was the male.

    A chalice is a symbol of the uterus and a dish looks a lot more like that than a spoon. A spoon looks a lot more like a penis than a dish does.

    I'm so glad this forum exists so I've got a place to discuss such important matters!

  • sass_my_frass
    sass_my_frass

    Ah well, I guess I was hoping that there had been a new light (a modern one, maybe a series of efficient low-power LEDs) on the subject. Now I just have to stay sad about how my sister and her husband would be feeling.

  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga
    Sass said: Now I just have to stay sad about how my sister and her husband would be feeling.

    Or... you could just think, "Oh, well!" They are adults, they made their choices, and just think wish them well.

    I neglected to mention that I am sorry for your sister's health and very sorry that they don't want to be in communication with you (if I understood you correctly.) That hurts enough as it is. You can always send them your well-wishes... in many forms.

    Surely there are some reasons to be happy for them on some level? We cannot heap ashes upon our own heads and hearts for the decisions of others pertaining to their own lives. We must be strong within ourselves and wish them well.

    Love,
    Baba.

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