Even two weeks later, e-mails continue coming in.
This first one below just a few minutes ago. So many JW's don't know what the heck to do
.
I've just finished reading your letter to the elders in your congregation - stumbled over it whilst doing my own "research" (http://newsblaze.com/story/20081209054218zzzz.nb/topstory.html). Its absolutely spot-on - all the issues (especially blood issue) you outline I too have been really concerned about and have no decent answers from local BoE, branch office or HLC. Having being brought up as a JW I'm now almost 35 and really struggle with some of the teachings of the "slave class".
I hope you don't mind me emailing you about this - it would be great to be able to share thoughts with you on these issues as you can't really share them with those in the cong. for fear of being branded an apostate!
By the way, I think you site is great and the picutres of Hawaii are simply stunning - what a beautiful place you've moved to!!!
Look forward to hearing from you,
++++
England
UK
************************************************************
Thank you for sharing those e-mails Vince.
It also amazes me how many JW's are leaving their religion. At one time, we thought, we found it, the Truth! And, we thought we had reasons from the Bible to believe this. Now, it appears that that foundation was based only on interpretation, not some sort of SPECIAL knowledge.
I can't help but to think that this religion does suit some people - those who need to feel superior to others. What's interesting about that is that superior feelings are often the result of inferiority complexes. It's a study onto its own, but it's simple. People who feel inferior (even if it's only in their own minds) look for opportunities to come across as superior. And, although JW's may think they are humble as a group, their very religion BOASTS superiority because it alones KNOWS the so-call Truth. Therefore they are constantly drawing contrasts between them and all false religion. When the leaders did this with the child abuse problem in other religions, when certain JW's exposed this on Dateline, it showed that JW leaders are no different than any other religion. What a blow to them - too bad they have kept so many of the flock in total ignorance of this. I still hear elders belittle other religions for this problem.
Well, keep in touch Vince. You live where my wife has always wanted to visit. Don't know if that will ever happen, but she can dream. She's a great person and the love of my life!
++++
I am not always quick to reply, but I always reply. I need time to mull over things. I found Allen’s comments very interesting. First I must state I served as a member of the Bethel family for 4 years and understand why he feels the way he does about Bethelites and the Brooklyn Heights Congregation. I once did an experiment when I was a Bethelite in Brooklyn. I was walking around the 124 Columbia Heights tunnel system and decided to say hello to everyone I passed. Not a single Bethelite replied to my greeting and most would not even look me in the eye. That night I walked from my building on Hicks street to the 360 parking lot. I decided I would say hello to every person I met along the way who was not a Bethelite. Nine individual who lived in the Heights said hello to me. One regularly greeted me after that. What does that say? Most Bethelites condition themselves to mind their own business to the point that they forget how to apply social skills. I later served at Walkill and Patterson where individuals were totally different. They sometimes were so friendly all you got doing was saying hello to everyone but that was better than the stoics of Brooklyn. (Who uses terms like Stoics? Only Witnesses I guess) So I think if Allen saw that side of people he would not feel as strongly as he does about Bethelites. What I am saying is if they treated me a fellow Bethelite that way why would anyone expect them to go out of their way to treat a disfellowshipped person any differently....
Some may view my 21 years as a pioneer as a great sacrifice. Others are bitter for giving up a chance to get a better job or like me giving up having children. I know many that have left the truth that feel that way. But all of us make sacrifices. We no matter what we do in life....
Feel free to respond if you would like.
Regards,
++++
EXPOSING THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY ONLINE.
by Vinny 35 Replies latest jw experiences
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Vinny
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abbagail
This was a great quote from one of your letters from JWs:
[...]
So when I broke it down to what I actually did still believe out of their teachings, it came down to belief in God, Jesus, the bible and rejection of some obvious man-made teachings. This left me with the basics of Christianity. It became clear to me that I was simply a Christian, not a Jehovah's Witness. There is a freedom in the simplicity of that.
[...]
Amen to the Simplicity and Freedom in Christ!
Great job, Vinny, and great letters! -
Vinny
My DA letter posted over three weeks ago. Yet I continue to get replies today.
Here is another reply minutes ago. He is from and has family in India still in today, and plans to fly out there to try and help them open their eyes immediately. Especially his brother. He spoke to my wife on the phone for 30 minutes two days ago first.
Date: December 31, 2008 9:57:01 AM HST
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: I was so happy to hear from you, Vince.
Dear Vince,
Thanks for sending me all those emails that show how many friends have gone through this. I felt so sad to read some of the touching experiences.
Even yours... your son's exact words or condition that he puts forth for you to have relationship with him and his family. What a mind control !!!
How insidious and cancerous the brainwashing is that it penetrates into the family relationships. I am kind of shaking and trembling even now when I
think back that I too was in this hypnotized state for about 20 years. I went into this religious coma right after my college when I was 23 years old. It is
like general anasthesia. First they give you a happy juice to relax (paradise earth, everlasting life and instantaneous friends and community) and then
comes the powerful anasthetic medicine (unique teachings that are designed to isolate us socially, mentally and emotionally) and before you know you
are slipping into coma. That is what exactly happened to me.
But the interesting thing was that I got disturbed from time to time even in my coma by the disruptive behaviors of many elders and deputy elders (MS)
in my as well as in other near by congregations. It was definitely not the usual imperfect men excuse. It was all very serious in nature. But I never doubted
any teachings although never fully understood the birth day and blood bans. But by the time they introduced the birth day and blood issues I had already
taken a few doses of happy juice and my senses had become dull. So I thought all the issues that I saw are local to the congregations and Jehovah will
clean it in his time. Or rather I was told to think like that. I was making good progress (going deep and deep into that coma) and I believed with all my
heart and mind that Brooklyn Bethel is as holy as heaven and I would feel a deep respect (almost worship like feeling) to all the anointed ones especially
to all the GB members. I was not living in the U.S for the first 8 years after my baptism. We were told by the local branch bethel guys that it is a great
privilege to meet anyone that visits from Brooklyn and I used to think that I was so unfortunate because I never met one. If any GB member visits our
local branch for any dedication festival, O my God ! People would stand in line not to meet with him and talk but just to touch him. I am not exaggerating
at all. It is like the Hindus wanting to touch their idols and feel holy or the woman mentioned in the Bible touching Jesus to get healed. I was also like that
obviously.
It was 12 years ago we moved to the U.S. For the first few years I was so happy and excited becasue I had entered the land of Brooklyn Bethel. Then
I did see the same politics and problems here also. But nothing affected my faith. I was doing more and more. I was trying to display my pioneer spirit
by pushing my family to do aux pioneering. But I never liked the actual reporting of hours in the field service form with names. I even once mentioned to
an elder that if we want to know how many hours of preaching we have done as a congregation why don't we keep a report box like the contribution box
and ask the friends to write the details of their field service without their names and drop them there. Why should we have to know who did how many
hours? I was sick and tired of people comparing and judging. Although they mention from time to time not to compare but do your best, but in reality
everything was based on the field service report. That is one's progress report. It is your spiritual bank check that you deposit every month. Less amount
means you are poor and pathetic ! To make my long story short I finally woke up from this mental, emotional and spiritual coma a few months ago as
I mentioned in my mail when I started helping one of my studies regarding our stand on blood by doing some research. That is when I read your fantastic
letter with powerful logic. The beautiful thing was that not only I woke up but also I alerted my study (the entire family) who had become unbaptized
publishers and helped them not to slip into that deadly coma. They thanked me so much for that. First time in my religious mininstry I felt refreshed and
truly happy.
When I think back, are there any good things that happened from my experience? I can say a couple of things although I would never
recommend it to anyone. One, I can become a good sales man if I want. Second, my mind has got complete immunity now against cult attacks. It is like
you actually got the chicken pox and you are immune to that disease now. Not a great way to get immunity. It is dangerous !!!
It was so nice to interact with you and your wife and it helped me a great deal in my recovery process. There is so much more I would love to talk
with you and discuss. Can you please call me this Friday anytime in the afternoon (Eastern Time)? I think you are 5 hours behind us. If this Friday is not
convenient for you, you can call me next week any day. My cell (Verizon) is +++++. Looking forward to talk with you.
Thanks again
++++
***********************************************************************
And then this one below came in about 45 minutes ago..
Just amazing how many people want help today.
************************************************************************
Comments about your DA letter
Date: December 31, 2008 10:59:17 AM HST
To: [email protected]
WOW!! I just finished reading your disassociation letter. It's EXACTLY how I feel! I was raised as a Witness and technically still am. My husband was a MS for a while, but because of congregation politics, finally stepped down. I expressed my doubts to him (doubts that I have had for years) and he reacted quite negatively. If there were some way that I could get him to read your letter, it would completely change his outlook. He's a person that is open to logic and reason, but he's also too smart for me to go up against. He will twist what I say because he doesn't want to believe that this isn't the truth. Anyway, if I may ask, do you associate with any religious group now, or just study on your own? I have been praying that Jehovah will reveal the "truth about the truth" to my husband and parents. I wish something would click with them.
**********************************************************************
From yesterday:
vince i live in massachusetts and i read your story
through a link at freeminds.org and short of
some small details its like your story mirrors my own
i did all kinds of research and came to the same conclusions you did
so i hope you dont mind but i just e-mailed you to say
thanks for sharing your story,its nice to know
there are those out there who have learned the real truth...
"only prisons have watchtowers"
thanks jc.
Dear Vince:
I read you disassociation letter. It was very moving and reminds me of my own situation. I too was an elder for many years and it was the blood issue that led me to question the societies judgement on this and subsequently other issues many of which you brought up in your letter.
I have decided rather then my wife and I disassociating ourselves we would simply fade away. This has worked out quite well because the elders have had a great deal of respect for me over the years and do not want to carry it all to the next level if they are not forced to. The reason for our decision is because we have a son who is 38 and is married to a woman who is still a believer and we do not want to disrupt their lives anymore then we have.
I wish I could take the stand you have taken and I am hoping that someday I can.
Congratulations on your business I looked at your website and your pictures are wonderful. Perhaps the next time my wife and I are in Maui we could look you up and have dinner and talk.
I have an acquaintance in Maui by the name of +++++. I studied with him years ago. He is an accomplished guitar player and lives in the ++++ area.
Your new friend
++++++
Hi Vince,
Thanks for the reply. I guess I am doing ok. Same o same o. Yesterday my son texted me, "I am heart broke, your an apostate, you believe every word! Stay out of my life!"
That was from my first born 24 year old son that I love with all my heart.
Thanks to the GB and their spending so many hour the last 60 years looking for unscriptual reasons to DF everyone!
I can't believe my life has ended up this way.
I'll get through it somehow.
++++
**********************************************************************
+++++
You are not alone. My opinion is that what we learned and believed for so long (that Jehovah has selected and uses the GB today, and that JW's are his people today), was so ingrained into our minds at meeting after meeting, magazine after magazine, assembly after assembly, get together after get together, daily text after daily text, home bible study after home bible study, all literature and tracts, in field service along with a host of other places; that you cannot just expect it to go away when the new light itself goes on. This indoctrination went on for YEARS for many of us. We not only believed it and heard it all those times but we also TAUGHT IT throughout our tenure as JW's as well.
I am very comfortable today, three years later, than ever before. Yet occasionally I still have dreams where I'm at the Hall.
Now, if it turns out that we are somehow wrong now, Jehovah knows I would do like Paul did on his trip to Damascus; as a persecutor of Christians, but then changed by seeing Jesus in a vision, becoming blinded and then told where to go and what to do. He then believed and did what he was asked. I too would believe in the JW's if there was reasonable proof to believe Gregg. Same with Mormons. They have witnessed to me at my home. They think they are the true church today as well. They are good, moral, decent folks with very close families. And the same goes for individuals throughout all religions. None of which makes them the only true faith. There must be some outstanding proof. Where is it then?
Jesus walked on water and raised the dead. Moses parted the red sea and manna fell from the sky. There was no doubt (if these things really happened) that God was with them and which gave compelling reasons to join.
But what we have today is this: http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part2.htm
That tells it like it is for me ++++.
So once I conclude the WTS ain't what they tell us they are, you basically get sent back to Go.. at the very beginning once again. And go from having all your questions answered to practically NONE.
No an enjoyable trip if you ask me.
But it is at least honest.
Now, I am figuring things out on my own, without people, and still feel the hand of God in my life today.
Like I said before ++++, you can live a good life as a JW. If you feel it's best to go back, just to get your family back and because you feel better as a Witness; I for one would say go for it. I do believe JW's, for the most part, have God's hand in their lives as well. At least I sure thought so when I was one. I just no longer think one NEEDS TO BE a Witness today to experience the love and help of the Divine. And I think they are wrong on many things including blood. Which then means I cannot force this bad teaching on other people.
That's why I say examine examine examine. You'll know what to do. Information is the key to unlocking those WT chains, IMO.
Just my .02...
v
Hey V,
Great advice, I needed it. Honestly I want free of the chains. I have been praying for answers for the last few years and real hard this last year. I believe you are thinking straight. I do not want to go back and lie by saying I believe in this channel. I do not!
Thanks for taking the time to help me with this. I appreciate it.
++++
********************************************************************************************
Vinny -
willyloman
V
I just spent the last 90 minutes reading your letter of DA and then went through your posts and read all the comments you posted from people who read your essay/letter on Newsblaze.
Your letter expressed my thoughts in so many ways; your journey parallels my own.
The comments you posted on this thread are invaluable and I just want to add my voice to the chorus; You have thrown a lifeline to a whole bunch of people.
Keep up the good work.
-
Vinny
Surprised to see this one in current topics. Thanks Willy.
I never really knew just how many stay in only because they don't want to lose family and relationships.
Here are a few other e-mails I recently received. They all tell a similar story!
Take care, Vinny
*************************************************
Dear Vince,
I was sent a link to your letter you sent regarding the issues you have with “the society”. Please know that there are more than a handful that shares your same views and convictions. Even though you may be cut off or shunned by the ones you know best there are that many more willing to accept you for whom you are. I wish I had your very reasoned and articulate way of expressing myself when I told them to just take a flying leap several years ago.
I was very much the way you described your son, without the understanding you displayed from my own parents. I wish you well in all your endeavors.
Sincerely,
******
****************************************************************
Dear Vince,
I'm not even sure you intend this e-mail to be a place to respond to your letter of disassociation, Zealous for Jehovah, that I have read and re-read. If it is not the place, please accept my apology. I could not help but respond to what you have written and to say that I could echo your experience almost completely. I am 37 years old, I was born and raised in this org, and except for a teenage rebellion and marrying a Navy man, I have been living as a baptized member since 1996. I am coming out of the organization. I have discovered through research all of the things you yourself spoke of and I venture to say many, many others have also with the wide use of the internet. I to have wondered why there is no accommodation in this org for just not wanting to be a JW anymore. People in other churches can come and go as they please but we cannot. Thank goodness I caught this when I did. I went through a very depressing time in my life about a year ago and did exactly what I've been instructed to do, go to my elders for help and I was appalled at the uneducated advice I received for my situation, (go to the Dr. and take whatever meds I need, go have sex with your husband), I continue to be speechless at the lack of education among the 'leaders' of this org in the health issues of today. Like you, there is so much I could say but I'm sure you've already heard it all. Also like you, the biggest thing for me was no longer being able to bring people into this org knowing that we are responsible for teaching them to adhere to such a wrong stand on the blood issue. I was truly feeling 'blood guilty'. My heart breaks for anyone who has had to go through that whole ordeal, thank goodness I did not. My heart also broke when your natural inclination to come to the aid of your son, (unconditional love), was 'wrong' in the Society's eyes, but good for you for coming to his aid anyway. That's what good parents do! Since I have been married to a 'non-believer' I understand the control they hold over us, they could trump the head of the household, natural parenting and other family relations. To me that is just plain dangerous.
I didn't intend to ramble. I just wanted you to know how much I was moved by what you wrote, how well written it was, honest, from the heart, and to assure you that a lot of others feel the same way as you probably know. I feel a little lost socially leaving this org. I have an 18 year old son who saw all of this before I did and a 13 year old daughter who told me the other day she's never been happier since we stopped going. I haven't heard from one person is this congregation or brother. It's like I've just been let go. It really hit me when you said we can spend hours in the ministry helping strangers but not help a supposed 'sister or brother' of our own. That has been the most shocking part to me and like you, even though I had an un-believing mate, I did everything just right. All the meetings, the best kids, volunteered for everything, auxillary pioneered, hall cleanings and buildings, etc... And we were a family that moved to a new hall every two years do to the Navy. The letters written to each congregation were always with the best praise for my family and how we were certainly 'assets' to the congregation. But because of my treatement (which there is a whole story to...) they are proving to me everyday that I am making the right decision to leave. There is nothing Christlike to me in any of it.
I'm reading a lot of other books on Spirituality, including the Bible itself which may sound strange but I feel like I'm reading it for the first time really. I scrutinized this org and it did not stand up to that scrutiny. It is built on sand and is crumbling. I read Eckhart Tolle and someone from your home state, Wayne Dyer! These have been so refreshing to me. I'm so happy for your life now and wish you nothing but the best for you and your wife and children. I am so thankful you wrote what you did and you shared it! Thank you so much!
Hawaii looks just beautiful from your photos, which are very talented I might add. We expect to take a trip to Hawaii next November, it will be my first time there.
Peace to you............*****************************************************************
Hello Vincent,
I read your letter that was on the I read your letter that was on the http://newsblaze.com/story/20081209054218zzzz.nb/topstory.html http://newsblaze.com/story/20081209054218zzzz.nb/topstory.html website. A friend sent it to me. My heart went out to you and your family. First let me assure you that I am not writing to refute anything you said in that letter. But to assure you that God's Truth is still with us. I applaud your willingness to prove all things according to the Word. However, there is another group of brethren that you might like to look into. Check out the website at website. A friend sent it to me. My heart went out to you and your family. First let me assure you that I am not writing to refute anything you said in that letter. But to assure you that God's Truth is still with us. I applaud your willingness to prove all things according to the Word. However, there is another group of brethren that you might like to look into. Check out the website at http://www.biblestandard.com http://www.biblestandard.com This group of followers of Christ also followed the understanding that Charles T. Russell presented concerning his research into the scriptures that the Trinity of the nominal Church and and their triune Godhead is not biblical; that Jesus the Messiah was Jehovah's first creation and that all things were created through Him; that Jesus preexisted his birth on earth as Michael; that Jesus died for all mankind just to name a few. This group of followers of Christ also followed the understanding that Charles T. Russell presented concerning his research into the scriptures that the Trinity of the nominal Church and and their triune Godhead is not biblical; that Jesus the Messiah was Jehovah's first creation and that all things were created through Him; that Jesus preexisted his birth on earth as Michael; that Jesus died for all mankind just to name a few. They have many publications as well as brothers and sisters in Christ all over the world. It is however a small organization compared to the JWs. They have many publications as well as brothers and sisters in Christ all over the world. It is however a small organization compared to the JWs. In His service and yours, **** ************************************************************************* Hi you guys! Hi you guys! Thanks so much for all the info and support that you guys give me! I can always count on you guys. It's great to read all the things you all send. You know...out of anything that any active witness says, from the ones that responded to you Vince, and your friend Michele, and my 'old pal'. They all sound the same. They say the same things, the same exact phrases. They sound like a broken record... but of course that's just because there is so much unity in their teachings. haha Thanks so much for all the info and support that you guys give me! I can always count on you guys. It's great to read all the things you all send. You know...out of anything that any active witness says, from the ones that responded to you Vince, and your friend Michele, and my 'old pal'. They all sound the same. They say the same things, the same exact phrases. They sound like a broken record... but of course that's just because there is so much unity in their teachings. haha I let my mom read it. My dad told me that she's trying to 'make' herself go back to meetings. The elders came over a month or so ago. Of course she didn't tell me or my sister about any of this. I'm not sure exactly what her plans are, but I'm sure they'll put the pressure on about us. I wonder how she's going to handle all that....oh well. Only time can tell. I let my mom read it. My dad told me that she's trying to 'make' herself go back to meetings. The elders came over a month or so ago. Of course she didn't tell me or my sister about any of this. I'm not sure exactly what her plans are, but I'm sure they'll put the pressure on about us. I wonder how she's going to handle all that....oh well. Only time can tell. Anywhoo! You guys take care and as always keep the good stuff coming. Love, **** *
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willyloman
Thanks for sharing more reactions, Vinny. I am sending this thread to several members of my family who are looking forward to reading your story and hearing what people have written in response.
Like you, we believe there are countless JWs sitting in KHs every week who would leave in a heartbeat if they could do so with impunity. When we reached that point, we "counted the cost" and made our exit. It has been totally worth it. Our initial anxiety was more than offset by the liberating effect of making the decision. We are still sorting out our spiritual journey (we left at the end of '03). We don't mind not having all the answers. The freedom to explore and decide is refreshing. We wouldn't go back for anything.
Your fellow conscientious objector,
Willy
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AWAKE&WATCHING
GOOD ON YOU!!!
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LUKEWARM
Thanks for posting your letter Vinny!!!!!
It is a brilliant piece of work - JW dogma simply has no answers to the thought provoking questions posed!!
Mrs Lukewarm and I are still active (family reasons) and because I feel sorry for our indoctrinated friends and find it difficult to keep quiet about our relatively newfound knowledge of the "truth", trying to get them to think about certain things at every possible opportunity, she keeps reminding me to watch how much I share/reveal as she doesn't want any attention aroused by the elders which can get us DF'd.
Becoming aware that your excellent letter is now also posted on a non-xjw site has allowed me to comfortably email the link to my "friends", which I have done - to 5 of them so far...http://newsblaze.com/story/20081209054218zzzz.nb/topstory.html
I say something like:
"I stumbled across this letter written by a former elder about questions nobody in the truth could answer and I thought you may be interested read it. The contents make sense to me but would be interested in your opinion of it as I might be wrong or perhaps am seeing things incorrectly..." I have got nothing but interestingly positive feedback from the 4 JW who say they read it right through.
Am also currently in the process of translating this letter for my mum - a work in progress...
Many thanks again Vinny!! -
Vinny
These are the kinds of opportunities where EX-JW's can help others to become better educated online. Read some of the comments if you get a chance.
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20091119/NEWS01/911190322#pluckcomments
It's always the same results. But it helps people, including JW's to see the truth as it honestly is.
The Watchtower is not God's Chosen Anything!
I know that's exactly how I first learned about the facts as they are. Three months later I turned in my DA letter.
Vinny
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cyberjesus
I think it was fantastic to post your letter on the media. The number of people that potentially could ripe benefits from it is worth the effort. Now the problem for most people is that after you realize that you have lied about the bible teachings and the bible translation itself, you only wonder if you could have lied at a lower level as well, i started questioning the authenticity of even the bible.
After I researched the WT and all their evil ways i went further and started researching the authenticity of the bible and found many similitudes on the reliability of the writtings.
But I leave that to the individual. I just didnt feel comfortable stoping my research at the WT level only.
Anyway I think you did a guy job.
Jesus